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  View original topic: Off road Air filter
67vwcruising Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:01 pm

Hello,

I spent some time searching and couldn't come up with a definitive answer.

I have a 73 Baja with dual Kadrons that I daily drive and spend pretty much every weekend in dusty conditions.

I pulled the air cleaners to service them and noticed a little bit of fine dust on the air filter housing.

I am currently using the stock Kadron filters with Outerwear dust pre-filters.

My question is this: Should I be oiling the Kadron gauze filters?

Or do i need to look into a better filter system?

Thanks,
Nate

Coyotemutt Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:13 am

I couldnt get my kadron filters to filter properly until I added some stuff steel mesh to the inside of the filter to make them more rigid. I did also oil them.

The added rigidity makes it so I can really compress the rubber seals on the filter.

joemama Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:30 am

You should also grease the sealing surfaces.

67vwcruising Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:32 pm

Thanks for the input!

Mikedrevguy Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:11 pm

Iím looking at fabbing some air boxes And then running to a central air cleaner thatís up out of the dust.

Vanapplebomb Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:32 am

If using gauze filters, yes, you need to oil them, or else they are only good for keeping gravel out. Even when oiled, they still are not great. The only way I would ever run gauze filters off road would be with an oils foam pre-filter...which actually filter better than the gauze filters. :lol:

I would find different filters. Paper wins hands down in my opinion. Much better at keeping the finer dust out.

dustymojave Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:18 pm

Vanapplebomb wrote: If using gauze filters, yes, you need to oil them, or else they are only good for keeping gravel out. Even when oiled, they still are not great. The only way I would ever run gauze filters off road would be with an oils foam pre-filter...which actually filter better than the gauze filters. :lol:

I would find different filters. Paper wins hands down in my opinion. Much better at keeping the finer dust out.

With the better part of 60 years of off road play and racing experience, I agree with you Van. Centrifugal filter housings help a lot to get rid of the bigger, heavier stuff before it gets to the filter element. I consider oiled gauze alone to be inadequate filtration. I'm not even all that fond of them on strictly pavement as I've found quite a bit of fine dust inside of intakes under daily driving conditions.

K&N boasts of more horsepower using their filters, but that's due to bigger openings in them which not only allow more air flow, but also more dust flow.

Using a filter media that filters smaller particles, and at the same time, using a lot more filter surface (ie. bigger filter), you can get the same horsepower gain that K&N brags of with their gauze filters.

Outerwears and similar are good for keeping big stuff off the outside of the filter element. Adding a paper element or an oiled foam element in addition to the gauze will help a lot. But there really isn't any room in the stock Kadron housings. I have foam outers for mine.

67vwcruising Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:24 pm

Thanks for the info guys, I'll start looking for foam pre-filters for my kadrons

SamT Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:47 pm

PJ1 filter oil is pretty magical on the K&N style filters.

Big Al Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:18 am

Have a rail with a stock Solex carb. I've tried a number of air filters on it. So far a six cylinder Ford air cleaner with a Wix filter works best. Have a short piece of hose between the filter and carb.

When I change the filter there is no dust in the carb. When I was running a K&N I always found some dust in there. Tried different oils no noticeable difference. The Wix filters are not cheap but they hold a lot of dirt so it's not a big problem. Better that than a Yuma bore job.

Just my experience. You may have different results...

Al in dusty Tucson.

joemama Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:53 pm

Never had Kadrons, but in my dual IDF motor in my fiberglass buggy,
i found the carbs very close to the tires, and tons of dust. This worked for me:

My original housings were chromed tin, but they weren't stiff enough to hold their shape and seal. Switched to CB cast aluminum housings, that didnt distort when I tightened the top down
Used K & N style gauze filters, oiled, and the rubber sealing ends greased, and in full contact with the aluminum housing
Also had a foam oiled sleeve over the gauze
And an outerwear over everything
Worked well

dustymojave Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:45 pm

Quote: Better that than a Yuma bore job. I like that Al.

I've heard it called a "Glamis bore and stroke" before by a sand rail guy who lost the air filter off his carb out in the dunes and had to rebuild. He found the air cleaner gone because the bearings and pistons started knocking. When he drained the oil, it had brought plenty of Glamis home. He had breathers to the air filters on his Webers.

And on top of that, the town of Yuma being just to the east of Glamis.

Big Al Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:29 pm

dustymojave wrote: Quote: Better that than a Yuma bore job. I like that Al.

I've heard it called a "Glamis bore and stroke" before by a sand rail guy who lost the air filter off his carb out in the dunes and had to rebuild. He found the air cleaner gone because the bearings and pistons started knocking. When he drained the oil, it had brought plenty of Glamis home. He had breathers to the air filters on his Webers.

And on top of that, the town of Yuma being just to the east of Glamis.

Yuma is exactly the same Longitude and Latitude as Hell. Used to go to Glamis years ago with friends. Thanksgiving is the time to go.

Al

jimmyhoffa Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:26 am

I only had to blow up 2 engines before I realized this is cheap insurance, even if it costs me a few dollars and a few horsepower.


There are cheaper ways of going about this too, you can combine a more affordable airbox with a Donaldson filter from heavy equipment.

You'd have to have two little airboxes Y'd together to a cyclonic drum filter for your setup, not terribly much more complicated. What is the throat diameter of your carbs, and do you have any pictures of your engine bay layout?

dustymojave Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:38 pm

The plastic cyclonic housings for small diesel equipment like GMC/Isuzu mid-sized trucks are less $$ and pretty commonly available. Also very popular with the restricted offroad race classes.

I have a late 1960s vintage NOS Donaldson Tri-Phase cyclonic filter set aside for when my Glitterbug fiberglass Manx-Type buggy gets to the front of the priority line. I've had that thing hanging in my garage since before I owned a car. So like since it was brand new 50 years ago. :roll:

Big Al Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:57 pm






Removed my air filters this morning. Gauze filters filter out what, mice?

Cast Aluminum bottom and top all nice and flat.

Harbor Freight shop vac bags would work better than this.

https://www.harborfreight.com/3-pack-replacement-filter-bags-94764.html

Al

dustymojave Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:18 pm

So for $10 you get 3 sets of Weber/Delorto/Kadron Pre-Filters. Good for wet use too.

Hnoroian Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:06 pm

Iím sold! Do they actually fit over the housings? I live in and near nothing but dust.

earthquake Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:21 pm

Make sure to forget your pantyhose for your filters when you go to Armagosa dunes, that way you can go to the cat house and pay $100 for a pair but you do get to take them off your choice of girl!

eQ

mr_bill Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:15 pm








Donoldson, fork-lift filter is INSIDE my 11x Car !!



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