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TeeBird25 Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:31 am

Hello, Thesamba! Iím hoping for some expert opinions on my fuel cell installation in my Ď68 baja bug. The PO had a 10 gallon poly tank installed in the back window; it was a concern (worn in spots by the mounts, and not enclosed despite being Directly behind the driver/ passenger seats) and so i upgraded to an enclosed fuel cell from JAZ with a more robust mounting bracket.

Also of concern was that the previous set up had the fuel line exiting the firewall on the passenger side, crossing in front of the fan intake over to the drivers side, and then routing around to come back near the distributor and then into the stock fuel pump ... i could see a disaster scenario with the line getting sucked into the fan so i moved the firewall through point over to the drivers side.

Now that itís in, Iím wondering if I need to reroute the fuel line again. The pick up point on the fuel cell is on the left rear bottom corner (i.e. drivers side, gravity feeding to the stock fuel pump). It then exits straight back through the fire wall into the engine compartment, and now Iím wondering if itís too close to the exhaust on the drivers side. Any comments or suggestions?

I could use some expert advice- Iíve never done a project like this and want to make sure Iím doing it safely.

Here are the pics with a few green handwritten notes.









rayjay Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:51 am

I'm really surprised that the fuel pick up is where it's at. Usually they have it on the top where there is no danger of fuel running out due to gravity. Are you sure that is not intended as a drain port ? What is the exact model # of your cell ?

As long as you have a really good grommet where the fuel line passes through the firewall you are ok. I would not zip tie the fuel line to other hoses. You could also use a bulkhead fitting. The ultra high-zoot solution is a dry break bulkhead fitting.

TeeBird25 Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:04 am

The lower left corner pick up is my own modification. I installed a -6 bulkhead fitting on the cell as i didnít think the stock pump could draw from the top pick up point that comes with it (it their 16 gallon fuel cell). I figured that if i needed to install an electric fuel pump in the future, then the lower pickup could become the return point and it could pick up from the top point as intended.

Thanks for the advice on not zip tying to the oil lines. Iíll remove those and will definitely look into a bulkhead fitting for the pass through point. Iím also glad that youíre not concerned about the fuel line route being too near to the exhaust. Thank you- I really appreciate it!

Matt Wilson Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:39 pm

I would suggest making the filler much higher - it'll take forever to fill that fuel tank with the filler level like that. You'll have to add gas really slowly...

Some race orgs will require a section of the breather to make a big loop over the main hoop or around the tank itself so that you can't spill fuel in a rollover situation. probably a good idea whether you are racing or not, for an off road buggy.

I would also recommend a discriminator valve on the vent line. That way you don't push fuel out of the breather if the tank is brimming full.

Be careful with using hose clamps over hose barbs - maybe it seems counterintuitive, but what can happen is an over-tight clamp with cause the barbs to cut the inner hose tube. And what's the first thing you do when you find a leak? You make the clamp tighter - it's human nature.

TeeBird25 Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:55 pm

Thank you Matt. That filler neck is definitely an issue. The old tank sat lower and the fill neck was just fine. The new neck was trying to kink in the middle so I added those midline clamps to give it support. Probably need to move the fill point- maybe replace that side window with plexiglass and mount it in that space somehow.

Here are pics of the rest of the install. I routed the vent tube around the cell, creating a high point at the rear and then a steady downhill slope to a rear firewall exit, where it terminates at a breather filter mounted to the rear cage. Hoping that prevents any leaking in case of a roll over of any position. It has a roll over valve but not a discriminator; Hopefully that high point would be enough to keep fuel sloshing up into the breather line. Iíll look into a better option tho (maybe something in-line right after the roll over valve?).

Clamps? Um... yes there are more than a few on this bug :) ! Itís funny, I just read a book on fabrication practices, and they author hammers home the idea of using AN fittings wherever possible. I think the next iteration on this vehicle is to comb through and replace as much with AN style connections and something better than zip ties (probably 1000 of them on this car). I have a distant dream of running this one in a SCORE or NORRA event. For now sheís a fun project that is teaching me a ton of lessons (mostly what not to do).







Matt Wilson Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:47 am

It looks like you have some fun plumbing ahead of you :) But honestly, this looks like a lot of baja bugs and race vehicles with aftermarket fuel tanks, and oil lines.

Might I suggest using a bulkhead fitting for the fuel tank, to pass through the firewall? You'd need a standard male-male 37deg flare with appropriate couplings on both sides. You could put your fuel shutoff and filter inside the car, upstream from the bulkhead/firewall. Then pulling the engine and/or fuel tank would be simplified.

I also noticed that you are using fuel line for the oil filter supply/return lines. Even though those hoses might live a little while, they may give trouble on a cold morning startup with thick oil. Instead of the Gates 4219XL, you may try Gates 3319HT (GTH) oil hose. But if you are using a lot of those AN fittings, you can get some 'racing' hose that seems to work for fuel or oil, etc.

Filler necks can be annoying. You may even think of an internal metal spring to avoid collapse/kinking. If the cap is not vented (which it shouldn't be) and the tank is filled brimming full, you don't want to push fuel out the breather too easily, just because you gas-up in the cool morning and the gas in the tank may expand as it warms up. That's what the discriminator can help with, otherwise running the breather dramatically high and into a long run of hose (sometimes up and over the main roll cage hoop) will help if you don't have the special valve.

TeeBird25 Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:21 am

I found this discriminator valve.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/abt-re185

Awfully pricey but I know you canít really put a price on safety so Iíll be adding this on to the vent line. And definitely will be upgrading to a bulkhead fitting for the fuel line pass through at the firewall and an upgraded set of oil lines that will outlast what I currently have. And the more I think about your last suggestion, the more i like the idea of running hardline out of the fuel cell pickup point and over to a firewall bulkhead fitting (with the shut off valve and fuel filter inside the vehicle), and then having a detachable soft fuel line that runs in the engine compartment over to the fuel pump. I think the hardline inside the vehicle will be a safer and sturdier set up. As ever, this car is giving me many opportunities to learn and improve! Thanks again Matt for your help!

dustymojave Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:30 pm

At 1.5" that ATL discrimator valve is going to be a tough adaptation from the apparently 3/8" vent line.

That fuel cell is rather high up in the car. Does it NEED to be that high?

Why is the filter on the end of the vent line right above the header? So any escaping fuel or vapors can drip onto the hot exhaust? And you were worried about the fuel line to the pump being close to the headers?

The 2nd routing of the fuel cell vent line is mostly acceptable to this race Tech Inspector. However... It COULD be much shorter.
- From the fitting at the top right of the tank, to the right rear corner of the cage, forward to the front of the tank, across to the left front corner of the tank, then down and out lower than the bottom of the tank.

That way, no matter which way you rotate the tank and the car in rolling it over, the fuel has to go uphill to get out of the vent line.

I have a 16 gallon Jaz tank in my Hi Jumper and have always used a stock fuel pump. Originally had an Allen 16 gallon fuel cell. No need for gravity feed. No problem with the pump sucking fuel out.

I too am not real impressed with the fuel filler neck hose. I HATE having a fuel filler cap in the roof of a Bug. Mounting the tank lower would help that. Not to mention the hose lacking overlap onto the tank neck. A little fuel left in the hose and going bouncing around offroad could quickly pull that hose off the neck.

If you really are thinking of going racing in Class 5-Open in a SCORE or SNORE event, you would find it more cost effective to start with a Crumco full tube chassis under your steel body or with a fiberglass body. NORRA might find your car caught in between vintage categories. And then an Ecotec or Subaru 2.5L engine with at least a Mendeola or Wedell trans. And start with racing in Texas before spending all the cash to race in Baja.

TeeBird25 Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:57 pm

Thatís really great feedback DustyMojave- thank you. Iím pleasantly surprised that the stock fuel pump could draw from the top port. Iím going to move the pickup to the top since that would definitely be a better option. And itís definitely clear I need to rework the filler neck situation. If i could move up the fuel filler cap 4 or 5 inches on that rear corner body panel I think that would fix the kink issue without having to mount it on the roof (yuk). And it would give me an excuse to learn a little about bodywork.

Other than that Iím not sure this particular fuel cell could be mounted lower. The battery box right now is bolted in behind the passenger seat but i doubt I could cram this fuel cell model down in that space even if I moved the battery. Iíve seen other fuel cell configurations that would probably work better in the long run... models set up to ride behind the driver/ passenger seats with a space carved out to accommodate the tunnel. Here are some more pictures of the current setup.

Iíll route that breather line as you suggest and post some pics when i get it done. On the vent filter position, Maybe I should run it on the outside of that roll cage member to get it further out from the exhaust (instead of the inside toward the engine area as it is now). I was worried it might catch rocks if it was located toward the outside but maybe Iím overthinking. Please let me know if you have a more tried/true/safer location that I should be thinking about.

Thereís an off road race association that operates where I am in Texas, which is exactly where Iíd want to try this little bug out before taking it out of state. Hoping to fix all of these issues and many others in order to participate in one of their upcoming events. Thanks very much for your advice- please keep it coming if you see anything else that needs some attention!




Matt Wilson Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:38 pm

It's coming along - I know it can be a trade-off mounting the cell lower and further forward, since you block access to the transaxle nosecone/shift linkage area.

Keep in mind that the JAZ fuel tank may not be accepted in all race orgs. You may be a ways off from racing, but know that race rules change all the time. I know SCORE requires safety fuel cells for enclosed vehicles, and require a different bladder composition than JAZ, and unfortunately, cost much more.

We had pretty good luck with the Fuel Safe DV100 discriminator valve. Both inlet/outlet uses -12 standard 37deg male threaded ports, and we were able to adapt down to -8 fairly easily. But not cheap for a couple ping pong balls in a jar:)

TeeBird25 Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:09 am

I'll go with that DV100 discriminator instead of the other model. Thanks for the tip- good thing I hadn't ordered that other one yet!

I called JAZ when I bought this cell a few months ago and specifically asked about running their cell in SCORE sanctioned events. Their salesperson assured me this style of fuel cell runs on several of their sponsored vehicles in the BAJA events despite how the rule book reads. I'll keep my fingers crossed, I guess... if I have to upgrade to a Fuel Safe or ATL cell in the future, so be it. But that day is down the road a bit for this car. In the meantime, I want to get this installation locked in so I can drive her again. It's been a learning experience, but I'm finding that people in the aircooled world are very helpful and ready to advise. It's been a lot of work but also a lot of fun.

dustymojave Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:27 pm

Regarding that Jaz fuel tank.

The rules specify a "Fuel Cell". A Fuel cell is properly defined as having a "ballistic bladder" inside of a rigid tank shell, with foam inside of the bladder.

A ballistic bladder is supposed to protect against penetration by a flying object such as a bullet (thus "ballistic") and if penetrated, self seal so that fuel will not gush out. It is not expected that it would seal perfectly, but that leakage should be more of a weep than a pouring stream. The intent of the foam is to further restrict rapid flow and also keep leakage slowed to a seep, like a sponge full of water on the kitchen counter.

In my Hi Jumper, I originally installed a Don Allen fuel cell of 16 gallons capacity. That had a polyethylene shell, upper half and lower half, with a bladder inside filled with foam. When the bladder died of old age, Don Allen had retired and gone out of business. I was no longer racing my Hi Jumper either, but using it for recreational offroading (which, in my case, is driving it like I'm leading the race). So I replaced that cell with a Jaz tank which, like the Allen cell, has a Polyethylene box tank, however the Jaz, as you know, has no split between upper and lower, but is a 1-piece tank, capable of holding fluid, and is filled with foam, but has no inner ballistic bladder.

So that you don't think what I have to say here is from just any old guy who's spouting off on the internet with no knowledge to back it up, my history is that I've been a race car Technical and Safety Inspector since I was 7 years old. Starting out with SCCA road racing before fuel cells came into use in race cars. With SCCa I teched all sorts from Trans Am cars, to Formula Vees, to Can Am cars to F5000 open wheel cars to Corvettes and GT350s and Cobras to Alfas and Austin Healeys to Proschces. My father became the Chief of Rules Enforcement for SCCA in SoCal, and a co-Tech Inspector and close family friend, Ernie Waring, became the Chief of Tech Inspection for NORRA for the Mexican (Baja) 1000 and then, later my brother's father in law. When Mickey Thompson decided to start SCORE and took over the Baja 1000 and other races, he came to his old hot rodding buddy, my father, to write the technical part of the rules for SCORE. So the rules for roll cages and fuel cells were written on my dinner table in meetings with Mickey and a number of racers. Much of the original SCORE rules are still in place. The SCORE rulebook has been used for a great many other organizations since then and has been the basis for a number of other organizations' rule books. My father was the Chief of Tech for SCORE in the early 80s, when he had time to deal with the job. Then heart troubles caused him to retire and hand over that job. When Roger Norman took over SCORE in 2012, my close friend and long time Tech Inspector (since he started working Tech with me at SCCA races in 1972) Art Savedra was named SCORE Chief of Tech and carried that until he passed in 2017. I have some CLOSE ties with offroad racing Technical and Safety Inspection.

In offroad race buggies and Baja Bugs, the fuel tank is well protected within the car. The ONLY such car I've EVER seen the fuel tank penetrated was a 2-seat buggy that was brought to Tech at a SCORE Baja 500 in the mid 1970s that had a fuel cell bladder without any sort of can around it. It had a pine stick shoved through it from the bottom piercing both top and bottom, yet not leaking fuel. A metal or polyethylene can or box would have diverted that stick. I have NEVER seen the fuel tank in a buggy or Baja pierced in a racing crash situation.

So with all of that said, I'm fine with the Jaz tank in my buggy not having a ballistic bladder.

I don't know any Offroad race Tech inspectors currently active or alive who know the difference between a Jaz and a "proper" fuel cell. And that is the specific reason why Jaz sponsors offroad racers and many offroad racers use Jaz tanks.

I've seen a number of offroad race trucks with the fuel "cell" in the back behind the rear axle in end-over-end crashes that have not had any trouble with the tank leaking.

In general, I have no problems with offroad racers using Jaz fuel tanks. As I said, I have one in my own buggy that I drive like I'm still chasing a racing championship with it.

In your car, it appears that the primary reason for the cell to sit so high, is that the throttle cable was placed before the fuel tank. Most racers will have the throttle cable or hydraulic throttle line routed UNDER the tank and up to the engine. Most place the tank behind the front seats, rather than back above the gear box. There ARE "tunnel cells" that have a notch in the bottom for throttle cable, clutch cable, brake plumbing, and shifter linkage to pass through. But NONE of those are designed to clear the tunnel in a Bug. So 5/16 racers who are required to have the stock pan in place, use a box shape tank usually sitting on top of the tunnel, or in the case like yours of having the shifter link above the tunnel it will be right above that linkage rod. I, myself would have the shift link rod inside the tunnel. 5-Open aka 5- "Unlimited" racers almost ALL use a full tube frame with a tunnel fuel cell. But they are NOT using a VW pan and tunnel.

I know it's not real easy to move the tank now that the mounts are all done. But I recommend moving it down anyway. One of the biggest handling issues that Baja Bugs face is a high center of gravity. And mounting the fuel tank up high in the car is a BIG contributor to that.

Moving the trans down so the shift link is in the tunnel would be the 1st step. Use a mid mount attached to tabs welded to the frame forks. to lower the trans. Do you REALLY need that big of a battery box? Maybe you could re-locate the battery? Then move the Jaz tank down and forward. These changes would improve the car's handling dramatically. It would also vastly improve the problems of the fill neck. You could, then put the filler neck in the window opening mounted to the cage or to sheet aluminum screwed or riveted to the body and cover the existing hole with a screwed on piece of sheet metal. No fancy body work or Bondo needed.

You shoulder straps are mounted VERY low, which would tend to crush your spine in a roll over. They should be mounted up near the level of your shoulders The bolt in cross bar is fine, but should be about the height of the bottom of the window to mount the shoulder straps where they should be. Shoulder straps are there to hold you back in the seat. NOT to hold you down. You will need 3" shoulder straps for racing. I see MANY rally type cars and track wannabe racers who have their shoulder straps mounted to the floor or such down low. That is done out of ignorance.

That 1" square cross tube is not nearly stout enough for shoulder straps. And really I see no other useful function for that tube. What the shoulder straps attach to should at least be 1.5" x .090 tubing.

The vent line end is most often placed near the torsion housing down low well below the bottom of the tank. And nowhere NEAR the engine and exhaust.

Matt Wilson Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:07 pm

Richard knows his stuff, that's for sure. I think we've chatted on fuel cells, vs. fuel tanks before. I would also say the wordsmithing of the rule book is probably an ongoing challenge over the years. We got to meet Art back in 2014, and he was a great resource, and helped us get the car up to spec.

I think one of the main reasons rules are written a certain way is to appease the insurance companies. If the trophy trucks and other big race vehicles are required to have FIA level internal ballistic bladder type safety cells, then all vehicles below are then given the requirement.

I will say, I drove another Class 11 car, that was "VORRA/SNORE-legal" that had the 12.5 gallon extra capacity stock style tank. The tank splashed and vented improperly, filling the cabin with fumes. It didn't really give you the feeling of 'safe'.

I see off-road builders specializing in SCORE-legal cars and they continue to use the JAZ tank to save the customer money. I suppose I could protest if I/they ever made it to the podium (had I not spent all my protest budget on the FIA cell :) and if I ever finish in time hahah)

Like Richard said, get the tank LOW (low center of gravity, easier filling, etc). Another part of the rule book, is also having a firewall/bulkhead that will keep the tank separated from you. With that in mind, you also will have a shoulder harness bar, and need to see behind you, which is nice if those aren't features that are impeded by putting the fuel cell up too high. here's what we did, and seemed to work just fine. The cell was the biggest one we could fit through the rear window opening, without ordering custom shape.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BX_hv0zBNNO/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYUidQqBxAX/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

By the time you are ready to race, you may have re-developed things and figured out what you want different anyway, so for now, I think you are smart to think ahead, but know you may have to change it later.

TeeBird25 Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:58 pm

Thank you Richard and Matt. The comments and guidance youíre giving me are extremely valuable; thank you for taking the time. Itís amazing to have the attention of two highly qualified off roaders/ VW owners on my little fuel cell project and I very much appreciate it. I was lucky enough to participate in the BAJA 1000 last year with my brother in laws team, in class 1400 (that darn rainÖ.). I thought it was just gonna be a fun trip and Iíd come back to resume life as usual; fast forward to a week later and there I am buying this baja bug and researching Class 5 rules. The whole thing just kind of grabs ahold of you. Iím taking my time and have realistic expectations.. but its ok to have a dream, right?!?

When I resolved to replace that old poly fuel tank, I researched and found some threads that were helpful. But there were a lot of specific details that I didnít pick up on- i.e. the howís and whyís of something like this. My hope is that this thread will provide good detailed documentation and help someone in the future that is planning to install a fuel cell like me, with some in depth pictures and comments.

Discriminator valve and new -AN fuel lines are in the mail so no pictures of that yet, but will post them when they are done. For now, here are some more pictures of the interior:









The transmission in this bug is from a í70 or í71 type 2 bus, which Iíve read is a common mod for offroad type 1ís. That said, do you think I could drop the trans lower that it already is? Iíve read that a type 2 tranny has the shifting mechanism on top of the nose cone, which is why I assume a previous owner ran the shifter on top of the tunnel in this one. I donít know much more about it and hadnít thought of dropping the trans or reworking the shift assembly.

Thanks for those IG pics, Matt. I didnít know you were part of the ProjectBaja team. Iíve seen some of your team videos and other stuff online. Thatís so cool! One idea I did have when I was planning this out was mount the JAZ cell where the back seat was and ride above that nose cone/ shifting rod. The square 1-inch member was actually the cross support for a back seat that was in the car when I bought it 9 months ago. You can see two rusty, wide steel members that weld to it and run back to connect to the rear wall; the back seat bolted on top of those. But I would never put anyone in the back of this thing with the old unenclosed poly cell sitting high in the back window when I bought it. So the seat is gone but the supports remain. But in the end I chickened out on that plan and put it where the old tank was. Looks like I need to go back and follow ProjectBajaís example, which I think is what Richard described above for the class 5/16 racers, but I still donít know that the Jaz cell will fit. Iíll have to measure, maybe Iíll get lucky (ha ha, prolly not). Having gone through the process of mounting the cell once, moving everything shouldnít be a big deal- I learned how NOT to do it last time, so next time it should be a breeze.

Youíll also notice in these pictures that there is a horizontal tubular cross member right behind the front seats that is part of the roll cage; it bolts in, and I had to remove it during the fuel cell installation. In these new pics, itís bolted back in, and I was thinking it would be a better place to anchor the seat belts. But after reading your comments above it sounds like I need to put in something even higher. New seat belts and upgraded seats are also on the punch list, but right now Iíve got these Renegade seats and whatever these current belts are. Definitely going to address both of those problem areas too.

The battery box is my own special upgrade. The previous one was too smallÖ so small in fact that it didnít exist. The PO was ok with the battery sliding around in the floorboard behind the passenger seat, no mount and no box! Not a great situation, so the week after I bought it, I bolted in a box off the shelf from OíRiellyís. It works fine for now but long term I figured I might have to relocate the battery, so in the end it will probably go elsewhere. Especially if I need to make more room in the rear space for the fuel cell and future driverís compartment fire wall.

I know this a fuel cell thread, but the next big ticket item in my mind is evaluating the roll cage, and it seems to be very relevant to perfecting the fuel cell position. Here are some pics of the current set up, which I thought Iíd go ahead and share here. The SCORE rules say there needs to be a diagonal member in the rear hoop. Right now there is only that horizontal cross member that bolts in behind the seats. Iím anticipating Iíll have to replace that or at lease bolster it with a diagonal member. If I need to weld in some supports for a lower positioned fuel cell, that probably needs to be part of the game plan.







Lots to fix and still lots to learn but Iím really enjoying this project. Please comment some more if you get some time!

plotch Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:15 pm

As far as moving the transaxle down, i think the lads are suggesting a ten degree mount. Nice car and good luck.

dustymojave Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:07 pm

Yeah Plotch, ... sorta like that. personally, I'm not all THAT keen on the 10į mount. I have the pieces for one in my garage, but...

Check these photos out. It's a 5-1600 that I did not build, but it's mine now (or at least, the remains of it are). It had an 091 trans in it last, and it had a "Super Shifter" on top of the tunnel. But it could have had it inside the tunnel with a slightly different mid-mount plate. You already have the shifter on top of the tunnel, so....

But if the trans is mounted with an EMPI Bus-In-Bug flat plate front mount, it's no bueno. A mid mount is FAR less likely to break the trans case. The EMPI rear mount has slots to allow the trans to be moved sideways for equal or unequal axle shafts. This also is no bueno. Welded on tabs or a 10į rear mount are better.

I see LOTS of things this car will need to prep it before it is ready for use as even a beginner 5-Open Baja. I'll try to keep helping, hopefully BEFORE you do things, rather than AFTER.

The 5-16 Baja I show had an Odyssey battery mounted on the rear package shelf beside the air filter.

One critical item that's currently missing and is a MUST before any competition in the car, is a lateral diagonal brace in the roll cage at or behind the B pillar of the cage. That 5-16 shown above was retired from racing after it was rolled at 64mph in cross winds of about the same speed. It landed on the top left of the B pillar hoop. The cage tweaked to the right because the diagonal was not properly built.The bottom left of it was mounted to the B-pillar about a foot above the bottom to clear the fuel cell that was mounted before the cage was finished. The diagonal MUST be from bottom corner on one side to the top corner on the other side. It MAY be an 'X'. But it STILL MUST BE from corner to corner. Not kinda near the corner...but AT the corner. If it had been built that way, that 5-16 would still be racing. Not parked in my back yard missing all its working parts. Nobody got hurt, but a fresh paint job and new wiring and fresh race prep was all wasted because it wasn't built right. And none of the Tech Inspectors who had seen the car had spotted that issue or been knowledgeable enough to know that it wasn't right.

Matt Wilson Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:44 am

Do you know who built the cage? Was it ever inspected/tagged? Hopefully the materials are up to spec, and not bolt-on 'show cage' stuff that may not pass the tech inspection.

TeeBird25 Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:11 pm

Thank you Plotch and Richard. Iíve been looking up details on remounting the trans. It might be above my paygrade at the moment but there are some aircooled folks in my area, so I can probably get some local help. Will also get some expert eyes on the cage. I donít know who built it or if itís ever been tagged or even inspected, but I should be able to measure the wall thickness and get an idea if itís at least sized correctly. That one member behind the seats is the only bolt-in section inside the vehicle, but the engine cage on the rear is removable as well.

As Richard said there are many many items on the punch list before Iíd be able to enter a race eventÖ if the cage members are undersized, then perhaps Iím just fixing up a nice trail runner, but that would be ok too!

I did some quick measurements and I can move the Jaz cell down off the back shelf a bit. But it definitely wonít sit as low as Mattís pyrotect cell. SoÖ Iím going to mount it in there as low as possible, and will take special care to leave room for a diagonal member to be added in the rear hoop. As Richardís post specified, it WILL be aligned properly on the existing corners. Iíll need to start by relocating the battery. Not sure if it should go in that back window area, or maybe mount in to the front wall underneath the hoodÖ will look at some options. But Iíve run several wires through that tunnel already so moving things around wonít be too bad.

Pieces/ parts are arriving. I got the discriminator valve and the higher quality fuel line with -an connects. I went with the Harmon valve; found it on sale and I liked the idea of having a clear body to see inside the valve. Iíll get to work and will post some more pics in the next few days. Cheers, yíall!


Matt Wilson Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:16 am

It looks like you're making good progress. remember the discriminator valve is supposed to work in line with the rollover vent valve.

If you really wanted to get into racing, don't think you won't be able to join up with a team and help them out, rather than taking on the full burden yourself. It takes a village...

TeeBird25 Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:16 pm

Would definitely be good to get some more help on this thing. I did have some friends help when I replaced the clutch a few months ago. Maybe we'll turn into a team one day... who knows!! There's another off road event nearby on October. I plan to go out and watch and meet some of the area teams.

I'm going to mount the discriminator valve on top of the internal roll over valve as it comes up out of the fuel cell. I think it should work well like that. The Harmon valve says it also has a roll over ball inside in addition to the 'ping pong' ball, so I'll basically be running two roll over valves inline... a little overkill never hurt anyone...

Here's a quick update. I think I've got the best spot picked out to relocate the battery. There's a space in front of the passenger seat that should work; its in the front caged area of the car on the forward side of the firewall. Right now the horn is sitting in that space, and is easily moved. Here are some pictures.





So, I think I can bolt in a battery box or tray to rest on those lower members (visible in the second picture, below the car horn box). There should be enough space to slip an Optima yellow top into that spot, and rerouting the electrical will be fairly easy. You can see in the pictures a lot of the wiring is stuffed into the front tunnel entrance.

Another spot I've been reading about for battery relocation is in the passenger floorboard, pushed as far forward as possible. But I think that would be a safety issue as the passenger might end up resting their feet on the battery box all the time. I also thought about mounting the battery in the rear luggage space by the rear window (i.e. where the fuel cell is currently) but I thought this could also be dangerous if the mount broke loose during a roll over or crash or anything like that.

Please comment if you have any thoughts! I'll post pictures as I get the battery done and start moving the fuel cell. Thanks!



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