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  View original topic: Cold start issues plus disconnected hose
Kaisan Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:06 pm

Hi VW Fam,

My first post here - I recently came into the good fortunate of a 1983 air-cooled automatic Vanagon. Living in it full time as of a month ago. I'm also a total noob when it comes to car mechanics and the Vanagon under the hood. ... This will end well, right?

Been having issues with the cold start since acquiring the Vanagon - usually takes 4-7 cranks while gassing accelerator to get it going.H owever today it took over an hour after some prodding of valves and futzing around. Car would start, engine would turn over, then it would stall and die. Couldn't get it moving for more than half a second. Not sure if I just got lucky of actually did something to help it start.

Replaced the battery less than a month ago with an Interstate MT-41 (CCA 650, CA 810). Couple of car shops told me starter is fine.

Any advice on how to troubleshoot or what could be the issue?

Separately, I noticed the hose in attached pic is disconnected. Anyone know what it's for, and how to reconnect? The opening seemed pretty crude and not an exact fit.

Thanks for any and all advice, and look forward to contributing back once I have any idea of what I'm doing!

Best,
Kai






Wildthings Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:25 pm

The first thing I do when I buy a rig this old is replace all the vacuum hoses, boots, elbows, etc. There are literally dozens of places that can leak vacuum.

You should make sure your cold start valve is working, and also test the resistance of the TSII sensor from the plug for the ECU.

The hose that you have that is off is for the fuel vapor recovery system, while it needs to be reattached it is not your main problem.

For safety reasons you also want to replace all your rubber fuel lines with the correct 30r9 rated hose and your flexible brake hoses.

heidi85ho Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:31 pm

In the second image...l see a seriously deteriorated connection at the vacuum Advance on the distributor. That will certainly affect things.

Kaisan Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:21 pm

Thanks both for the comments -

@heidi could you draw a circle around the part you're talking about or send a link to a replacement? Want to look at it but not sure which part is the connection.

@Wildthings is the below image one of those hoses? Or is it different since covering for some wires? I noticed that seemed burned to a crisp in some spots, exposing the wires. Was thinking to get some electrical insulation tape to wrap. I'll looks into the other vacuum and fuel hoses and see if I can do myself.


Thanks!

Wildthings Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:01 pm

Kaisan wrote:
@Wildthings is the below image one of those hoses? Or is it different since covering for some wires? I noticed that seemed burned to a crisp in some spots, exposing the wires. Was thinking to get some electrical insulation tape to wrap. I'll looks into the other vacuum and fuel hoses and see if I can do myself.


Thanks!

That is just sheathing over the wires. It darkens with age and get brittle. Tape it up as you wish or replace it with split loom.

Wildthings Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:02 pm

Kaisan wrote: Thanks both for the comments -

@heidi could you draw a circle around the part you're talking about or send a link to a replacement? Want to look at it but not sure which part is the connection.

@Wildthings is the below image one of those hoses? Or is it different since covering for some wires? I noticed that seemed burned to a crisp in some spots, exposing the wires. Was thinking to get some electrical insulation tape to wrap. I'll looks into the other vacuum and fuel hoses and see if I can do myself.


Thanks!

The hose that I referred to as not being your main problem is shown in your next to last picture. It just provides air to flush your carbon canister, it hardly effects running at all.

heidi85ho Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:41 pm

Second image
Center, one third up from bottom, highlighted with your light.

heidi85ho Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:00 am


Abscate Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:49 am

Do not run the motor in up it house until you get those fuel lines done.

We have a Burned Vanahon thread for those who ignore this advice

Kaisan Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:48 am

Went to scope out the fuel lines for replacement, but it seems previous owner put in metal ones? Are those much longer lasting, and would I be ok to keep? Couple images below, not sure if I'm looking at the right lines.

Thanks again for all the help!



Wildthings Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:45 am

It is the black rubber hoses between the metal lines that you need to replace. Also there is a plastic connector at the firewall that is a known point of failure, these connectors can be eliminated outright or replaced with metal units. There are also the two plastic manifolds that feed the injectors that are known to crack, there are metal replacements available.

On my '83 1/2 I have also added a spring loaded check valve to the return line so that the fuel can not flow backwards through the return line in case of an engine fire.


oceanair Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:03 am

Realistically, at the end of the day -- to be reliable -- all of those 40 year old soft hoses need to be replaced. Then a full tune up from start to finish with an eye for any missing tin and any holes, gaps or air leaks. It's air cooled -- all of the the air must go through the engine as designed and not out the gaps and holes. The same is true for the hoses -- any vacuum leaks will lean the mixture which will make it run hot.

There are no short cuts here. It's time and a bit of money, but penny wise, pound foolish.

Good luck, have fun and ask questions here!

jlrftype7 Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:19 am

Kaisan wrote: Went to scope out the fuel lines for replacement, but it seems previous owner put in metal ones? Are those much longer lasting, and would I be ok to keep? Couple images below, not sure if I'm looking at the right lines.

Thanks again for all the help!




The stock metal lines on your engine are a hold over of sorts from the previous Bay Buses, which used partial metal lines, and some short hoses like yours for Fuel Delivery to the Injectors. 914s, Type 411s and 412s, same curved metal line basically
Once the WBX/Water Cooled Gas Engine came around, VW went to all rubber hoses around the engine, for reasons I'm still not sure about, since the Metal Lines had worked pretty well for them in the past. And other Manufs. were using metal lines with a minimal amount of rubber hoses to connect the lines .
Maybe it was just a cost factor? Add the plastic Fuel Rails to that equation too. :P

sjbartnik Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:10 pm

You’ve got some work ahead of you my friend.

All rubber fuel hoses must be replaced with proper 7mm FI-rated hose. All vacuum hoses should be replaced, starting with that one at your distributor that is falling apart.

The L-Jet FI system you have does not tolerate vacuum leaks.

Other common vacuum leak points are the four rubber boots at the intake runners and the seals at the tips of the fuel injectors.

Kaisan Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:25 am

Hi all -

Made some progress today - I removed most of the fuel lines (see pic of injectors below). O rings are very worn, thanks for the advance to address immediately. That could've been bad. Parking van at a friend's and rush shipping over the replacement kit from GoWesty. Still need to figure out how to remove/replace fuel lines that aren't in the engine compartment.

Does anyone know the names of the grommets for the holes in the rear of engine compartment? Some pics below, there are three. 1: 2" diameter with 3/4" opening, 2: oval shape with 1.5"-1.75" diameter, and 3: 1" diameter. Want to plug to help vacuum. I cut the old grommets off because they were too worn to help.

Also any advice for how to patch that 4" gap in the lining? Not sure if some sort of tape would work. Or glueing a piece of plastic.

Still need to look into how to replace/address the cold start, next for me is looking at cold start valve, temp sensor, ecii sensor.

Thanks again,



jlrftype7 Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:09 am

Might be a good replacement here somewhere, if not from a VW vendor

https://www.mcmaster.com/rubber-grommets/grommets-6/

sjbartnik Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:06 pm

You need also to replace those rubber fuel hose stubs on the injectors. Basically you have to cut the metal crimp off the injector, get rid of the hose, then you can install a new piece of hose and clamp each end. Those injectors still have the metal crimp which means that hose has never been replaced :shock:

That's a CarBQ waiting to happen

Kaisan Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:51 am

Hi All,

Thought I'd report back and share that I did all of the hose replacements on the fuel lines and injectors! Van has been running well for ~10K miles post. Cold start issue seemed to be with the starter which finally crapped out 1K miles ago. Got that and ignition switch replaced and starts great.

Now having idle issues (van died on my at a stoplight after driving on highway, which is a first). Going to make a new post on that.

Thanks again for the help and guidance over the summer -



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