TheSamba.com :: View topic - New Headliner (WW) sags/bags a lot. WW says it's fine. Thoughts?

Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:28 pm

Hi folks, I installed this headliner in my 63 bug:

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113867499AOW

It is super baggy. The install videos don't show a baggy saggy result, that's for sure.

I've been back and forth with them about it, and eventually was told it should be the right size and I can use heat to shrink it, otherwise they can't really help me. :evil:

I wondered if your new headliner was this baggy, and if so, can I take this much play out of it with heat? I'd probably need to shrink it a good inch front to back. I know Chris Vallone recommends stuffing in a few cardboard strips to smooth out wrinkles; I think I'd have to jam a wrapping paper tube in mine to achieve any results.

Needless to say, I am not happy and would not recommend the WW kit. It was not cheap and their customer service was unhelpful.

Video of how baggy it is:
https://youtu.be/V_fT2xdUkZ8

Photo - here's the back, the front looks like this also.

Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm

I have the multi piece installed in my 64 bug and the headliner itself is nice and smooth. It has no wrinkles in it, my issue was more with the length of the windlace.
Sorry, this is the only pic I have on my phone. I can send you more when I get home. Also, I did not do the install. There are very few things I will not do but this is one that I payed to have installed.

Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:03 pm

I had a similar issue with my headliner. Have you tried unhooking the rear and flipping the retainer into the fabric a half turn and putting it back in? It's hard to explain but it'll effectively shorten the headliner

Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:05 pm

jimdubs wrote: I had a similar issue with my headliner. Have you tried unhooking the rear and flipping the retainer into the fabric a half turn and putting it back in? It's hard to explain but it'll effectively shorten the headliner

I haven't but thank you for the idea. I will have to buy a new one, as I had to take this one out to measure it for WW and I poked a hole in it while doing so. :oops: If the next one I order is loose I'll be trying this.

Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:56 pm

jimdubs wrote: I had a similar issue with my headliner. Have you tried unhooking the rear and flipping the retainer into the fabric a half turn and putting it back in? It's hard to explain but it'll effectively shorten the headliner

+1 this fixed the problem for me when I was wrestling with a saggy last-headliner-panel as well.

Also - a heat gun is your friend when it comes to headliner installations. I had to learn this the hard way.

Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:35 am

67_Deluxe wrote:
Also - a heat gun is your friend when it comes to headliner installations. I had to learn this the hard way.

OK. I do have one... will the heat gun shrink it as much as I need? ALL of my panels are (were - I took it down) baggy. WW suggested using a steamer, but I was skeptical due to it having so much give.

Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:37 am

Wow, that's really saggy! I have read mixed answers on whether or not the WW headliner is supplied from TMI, but for what it's worth I recently installed a TMI perforated headliner from JBugs in my '63 and it fit much better than what you show here. At first, it was somewhat saggy (not nearly as much as yours though) until I realized I did not have the edges fully pushed in over the metal lip on the roof. Once I got that sorted, it really evened out the headliner. I was left with only two small wrinkles that I have yet to take a heat gun to. The only thing I didn't like about this headliner was it has hard cardboard like strips on the edge (instead of plastic) and it is fairly easy to damage if you aren't careful while pushing it into the lip. It was also very difficult to stretch it enough to get the last couple inches snapped in. It was by far the most challenging part of my build thus far.

Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:01 am

hewica8 wrote: Wow, that's really saggy! I have read mixed answers on whether or not the WW headliner is supplied from TMI, but for what it's worth I recently installed a TMI perforated headliner from JBugs in my '63 and it fit much better than what you show here. At first, it was somewhat saggy (not nearly as much as yours though) until I realized I did not have the edges fully pushed in over the metal lip on the roof. Once I got that sorted, it really evened out the headliner. I was left with only two small wrinkles that I have yet to take a heat gun to. The only thing I didn't like about this headliner was it has hard cardboard like strips on the edge (instead of plastic) and it is fairly easy to damage if you aren't careful while pushing it into the lip. It was also very difficult to stretch it enough to get the last couple inches snapped in. It was by far the most challenging part of my build thus far.

Original VW headliners used cardboard for the retaining strips along the edge so they are correct.

Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:07 am

Nobody puts cardboard under the headliner except Chris. That should tell you something.

It looks to me like it is a combination of what has been suggested about flipping the retaining strip and a poor install. Headliners are very difficult to install correctly. You have to stretch everything tightly and then use the heat gun to smooth out any small wrinkles that may remain. It doesn't look like you stretched things enough. Do you have the felt padding under all of the places that it had padding from the factory? If you reused the original was it in good shape or deteriorated?

Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:47 pm

I’ll preface this by stating that I have never attempted to install a headliner. One question I will ask that seems like it would be common sense but someone new might not know, but you do realize that the headliners come slightly oversized and have to be stretched a little and cut right? There will be excess material once you stretch it. You don’t line up the edges and glue it in from the videos I’ve seen and the installs I watched.

Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:11 pm

Sharp64 wrote: I’ll preface this by stating that I have never attempted to install a headliner. One question I will ask that seems like it would be common sense but someone new might not know, but you do realize that the headliners come slightly oversized and have to be stretched a little and cut right? You don’t line up the edges and glue it in from the videos I’ve seen and the installs I watched.

Yep, best to lay it out in the sun to warm it up so it stretches.

Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:47 pm

Sharp64 wrote: I’ll preface this by stating that I have never attempted to install a headliner. One question I will ask that seems like it would be common sense but someone new might not know, but you do realize that the headliners come slightly oversized and have to be stretched a little and cut right? There will be excess material once you stretch it. You don’t line up the edges and glue it in from the videos I’ve seen and the installs I watched.

Not the top panel. It has the pockets for the support rods sewn in and a strip of cardboard sewn all the way around the edge. That gets pushed in and catches on the inside part of the quarter panels.

Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:58 pm

splitjunkie wrote: Sharp64 wrote: I’ll preface this by stating that I have never attempted to install a headliner. One question I will ask that seems like it would be common sense but someone new might not know, but you do realize that the headliners come slightly oversized and have to be stretched a little and cut right? There will be excess material once you stretch it. You don’t line up the edges and glue it in from the videos I’ve seen and the installs I watched.

Not the top panel. It has the pockets for the support rods sewn in and a strip of cardboard sewn all the way around the edge. That gets pushed in and catches on the inside part of the quarter panels.

Ok. I watched a buddy of mine install his and swear he had to pull it tight and glue and clip around the windows. Are there two different types? I guess I stand corrected.

Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:06 pm

This type tool makes it much easier to tuck the cardboard strip.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1692461

Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:53 pm

The problem is not the seller who's sold hundreds or the maker who's sold thousands. It's the owner who's installed none. I'm not trying to be a jerk but blaming the seller is getting old. Further, how many headliners do you think their customer service faculty has installed? They sell most of their products under the assumption of expert install where said expertise is required. It's not a license plate frame. Upholstery is a learned skill.

It takes heat, patience and skill to do a headliner. It takes looking carefully at how the stock materials looked when you removed them in order to install new upholstery in its place.

The body overlap is there for a handy reason. You stuff the excess in there after establishing the ideal tension in the front but mostly the rear window opening. Vallone uses a strip of cardboard to make a straight, even pull of tension. There's no crime in this- as cardboard is used as a tension "flap" in many headliners. The wrinkles are worked out either with CAREFUL heat gun work or liberal steaming and patience. I'm quite certain you can work out that headliner without having to pull it- they're very resilient.