TheSamba.com :: View topic - RMW Subaru Conversion kit. The rumor is a reality

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:43 pm

Hey Guys and Gals,

I know there have been rumors over here for quite sometime about RMW releasing a complete Bay Window conversion kit. I probably even started some of them. The reality is that we started working on it over 5 years ago. It would get attention, then get sidelined. Then it would get tested and never it would fail the criteria. Then it would get re-engineered and blah,blah,blah. It just took a long time to get it right. I want to start this link to help answer questions and support for the kit. So if you have questions, fire away.

Our goal was to develop a kit with minimal body modification that you could drive at cruising speed without running the electric fans or overheating. We tried different variations of the belly radiator and it always seemed to have drawbacks, whether it was ground clearance or heating up the floor or just not getting enough cooling efficiency to make driving comfortable without staring at the temp gauge. After a few renditions and lots of testing, we ultimately moved on to working on a in bay twin radiator set up. We found this to work really well. I think a lot of people are skeptics here. I will share the secret though. All the air that comes into the rear vent needs to go through the radiator. if there is air gaps around the radiator, the efficiency drops quickly. So we spent the time to make a full block of plate kit that uses weatherstrip to seal each radiator to the cavity. The next key is the efficiency of the fan. Putting a round fan directly on a square radiator leaves quite a bit of surface area that doesn't get cooled when the fan is on. This naturally creates issues with the duration and duty cycle of the fan system. So we made Aluminum fan shrouds so that when the fan is on, the entire radiator surface is getting cooled. This make the fans runs less frequently and for a shorter amount of time.

We made a custom Air box too. The engine bay can get toasty. The cooler your intake air, the better your engine will perform. So our Airbox slips into the round hole in the passenger side of the engine bay. The air is then sucked into the engine through the stock ECU hole. This is in the sealed off area before the radiator. This cavity is significantly cooler than the engine bay itself. We also have a mandrel tubing bender. We made custom coolant pipes to run all the plumbing in a nice neat layout. Nothing looks worse than corrugated flexible hose in the engine bay.

Our kit also includes a battery relocation kit, an electrical wiring harness to run the cooling fans. The battery is relocated underneath the rear seat. We have found that while this does take up a little bit of storage space, it is has it's merits in this location.

We also have a 250 page manual with lots of pictures. We anticipate our customers will drive most of the editing in the manual. We did our best with version 1 but we aren't necessarily technical writers and you don't know what you don't know. So the manual is a great guideline to follow but common sense and some basic mechanical knowledge and understanding will really go a long ways.

We use a similar exhaust to our Vanagon conversion. It is all stainless steel and hand TIG welded in our shop. We also do all the bending and parts processing in house for the exhaust. This has been a proven system on over 1000 Vanagons and we rarely have warranty issues.

Our engine support bar is very solid. It ties into the upper unibody where the upper trans attachment points are and also ties into the rear bumper bolts. It uses the stock square rubber Subaru motor mounts.

Our shortend oil pan that we use on Vanagons is a direct fit here as well.

We make our own throttle body reverser. We also have a simple throttle cable set up that is very smooth and crisp.

We acknowledge that there are a lot of DIY solutions to getting this done. We encourage it. Our goal here is to not compete with that. We understand that people can spend there time sourcing things from all over and spending less than $3k in parts. Often times there is lot of figuring out time and a lot of time spent creating little or big solutions. We are looking to help the person that doesn't want to figure out all those things.

Admittingly I have been driving my Bay Window a lot more since the conversion. It is a pleasure. We are here to help. Thanks so mush to the Samba and the VW community.

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:58 pm

Omg! Yes!!! What’s the price? And what is the transmission I used? What about all the wiring? Gauges? Etc? What bus model is the kit available for, early? Late?

And when can it actually be purchased?

Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:10 pm

ivwshane wrote: Omg! Yes!!! What’s the price? And what is the transmission I used? What about all the wiring? Gauges? Etc? What bus model is the kit available for, early? Late?

And when can it actually be purchased?

It does require a donor engine and wiring harness. We can modify the harness for you to fit in the Bus. It is set up for 72-79 buses. It is set up for the original transmission. We do suggest getting the later model bell housing if you have an early trans. It is ready to ship on the Van Cafe website.

Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:34 pm

air thru the orig ECU hole.… what do non FI busses do in that case?

Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:39 pm

ivwshane wrote: Omg! Yes!!! What’s the price? And what is the transmission I used? What about all the wiring? Gauges? Etc? What bus model is the kit available for, early? Late?

And when can it actually be purchased?

fiddy8hunnitdollhairs, plus 1k to have your harness done

https://www.vancafe.com/product-p/rmw-baywinkit.htm

mike, i'm gonna call b/s on the underbelly radiator running hot. I agree, the location isn't for everyone....but I have a bus in dallas WITH a/c that hasn't broken 205*

that said, looks like a decent kit. will this system work with a/c?

Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:39 pm

Since a lot of bays that will want these are in western smog states, have you submitted the package to say CARB for approval? Anything 2002 - 2004 would require it because the bus would then be treated at the engine YOM.

Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:50 pm

That was my next question: will these pass smog or will a 77 need to be smogged if the engine is from a 2000 forester?

Also, with all that air coming into the engine bay, how does it get out?

Your kit lists a new clutch option, is that just a stock clutch for a bus or a needed accessory? My 091 transmission was just rebuilt including new flywheel and clutch.

I also tried to add it to the cart and it said it was out of stock.

Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:10 pm

ivwshane wrote: That was my next question: will these pass smog or will a 77 need to be smogged if the engine is from a 2000 forester?

Also, with all that air coming into the engine bay, how does it get out?

Your kit lists a new clutch option, is that just a stock clutch for a bus or a needed accessory? My 091 transmission was just rebuilt including new flywheel and clutch.

I also tried to add it to the cart and it said it was out of stock.

Shane - if you install it in a 1977 bus in California the bus will end up going to a referee who will put a tag on it so it gets tested as a later year Sub conversion. The only issue I know people here in CA have is that every sensor, wire and hose have to be intact the same as the donor year to pass smog. If the original engine had a sensor in the trans that fed info to the ECU, then it has to exist to pass smog. That means if the original engine family came from an automatic that had torque sensing sensors that sent data to the ECU the same trans sensors have to exist with the conversion. If the clutch sends a signal when it is pushed in that changes what the ECU does, that same sensor has to be on the conversion. This means that someone has to be careful which car and year they pull a donor engine from.

I don't mean this as a political statement but with the election results looking like essentially Kamala Harris being the next US president, and the Trump admin having relaxed smog standards across the USA, I wonder if she will push her views on California smog onto the rest of the USA. If so it is likely CARB standards will be forced on others. That has been the pattern when other states like NY etc want to update their smog laws. Some of the non-CARB products Bus Depot has sold over the years have pissed off CARB to where they issued orders to Bus Depot to stop shipping them to CA or face huge fines.

Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:06 pm

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:

fiddy8hunnitdollhairs, plus 1k to have your harness done

https://www.vancafe.com/product-p/rmw-baywinkit.htm

mike, i'm gonna call b/s on the underbelly radiator running hot. I agree, the location isn't for everyone....but I have a bus in dallas WITH a/c that hasn't broken 205*

that said, looks like a decent kit. will this system work with a/c?

Yeah, My 78 Westy has A/C. As you know, that is a whole nother animal.

I get it the the belly radiator works for folks. We just weren't confident in putting it out to the masses that way. In the end, the engine bay system is easier to manufacture and install.

You definitely get cred for the way you do it. Hopefully this kit will allow more folks to have the same experience.

Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:11 pm

ivwshane wrote: That was my next question: will these pass smog or will a 77 need to be smogged if the engine is from a 2000 forester?

Also, with all that air coming into the engine bay, how does it get out?

Your kit lists a new clutch option, is that just a stock clutch for a bus or a needed accessory? My 091 transmission was just rebuilt including new flywheel and clutch.

I also tried to add it to the cart and it said it was out of stock.

We leave this up to the customers. We can't track and comply with every rule out there.

You can reuse your clutch if it is new or low mileage.

The air goes down through the engine bay and out the bottom of the van.

Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:12 pm

alman72 wrote: air thru the orig ECU hole.… what do non FI busses do in that case?

We give the specs to cut the rectangle hole in the manual.

Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:48 pm

Rocky Mountain Westy wrote:

Yeah, My 78 Westy has A/C. As you know, that is a whole nother animal.

for sure, a/c adds to the mess

steve, I REALLY hope you're wrong this time [-o<

Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:54 pm

Damn it why couldnt this kit come out before I dropped > 6k on my basement T4 rebuild?

Can't wait to see some installs and testing data.

Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:06 pm

SGKent wrote: ivwshane wrote: That was my next question: will these pass smog or will a 77 need to be smogged if the engine is from a 2000 forester?

Also, with all that air coming into the engine bay, how does it get out?

Your kit lists a new clutch option, is that just a stock clutch for a bus or a needed accessory? My 091 transmission was just rebuilt including new flywheel and clutch.

I also tried to add it to the cart and it said it was out of stock.

Shane - if you install it in a 1977 bus in California the bus will end up going to a referee who will put a tag on it so it gets tested as a later year Sub conversion. The only issue I know people here in CA have is that every sensor, wire and hose have to be intact the same as the donor year to pass smog. If the original engine had a sensor in the trans that fed info to the ECU, then it has to exist to pass smog. That means if the original engine family came from an automatic that had torque sensing sensors that sent data to the ECU the same trans sensors have to exist with the conversion. If the clutch sends a signal when it is pushed in that changes what the ECU does, that same sensor has to be on the conversion. This means that someone has to be careful which car and year they pull a donor engine from.

I don't mean this as a political statement but with the election results looking like essentially Kamala Harris being the next US president, and the Trump admin having relaxed smog standards across the USA, I wonder if she will push her views on California smog onto the rest of the USA. If so it is likely CARB standards will be forced on others. That has been the pattern when other states like NY etc want to update their smog laws. Some of the non-CARB products Bus Depot has sold over the years have pissed off CARB to where they issued orders to Bus Depot to stop shipping them to CA or face huge fines.

Hmm...I think the sensors I’d be most worried about is the O2 sensors because there are two but there are also two cats on a 2000 forester and I don’t see that happening on a bus.

The other thing I’d have to think about is how cabin heat is handled.

Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:33 pm

cabin heat would be easy. There are a couple Vanagon conversions who explained what they went thru to get past BAR. It was more than a conversion in another state would be.

Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:37 am

skills@eurocarsplus wrote: gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......

This is the best quote on the Samba. So many customers ask if the part is German... The standard reply is, "You do realize that Germans know how to buy parts in China too..."

Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:55 am

In NY the focus is on Diesel emissions from commerical stuff - nothing in the works for passenger cars. We stopped smogging when engine management became so good that if it doesn't code, its clean.

Good BG conspiracies are fun to speculation, but eventually, as the 'ET' line goes...."This is reality"

Focus of new admin will/should be repairing international relations, first.

Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:16 am

Abscate wrote: In NY the focus is on Diesel emissions from commerical stuff - nothing in the works for passenger cars. We stopped smogging when engine management became so good that if it doesn't code, its clean.

Good BG conspiracies are fun to speculation, but eventually, as the 'ET' line goes...."This is reality"

Focus of new admin will/should be repairing international relations, first.

Speculating on the country adopting stricter emissions control standards and acting like that is a bad thing, is completely selfish. Everyone knows internal combustion engines will soon be a thing of the past. Our kids and grandkids will forever be wondering why we were such assholes to the environment.

For me this kit is a step in the right direction. We all know how much better EFI controls emissions and fuel economy. My bus is tuned very well, but still smells like total shit if you are riding behind it compared to the other 99% of cars on the road.

Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:22 pm

RalphWiggam wrote: Abscate wrote: In NY the focus is on Diesel emissions from commerical stuff - nothing in the works for passenger cars. We stopped smogging when engine management became so good that if it doesn't code, its clean.

Good BG conspiracies are fun to speculation, but eventually, as the 'ET' line goes...."This is reality"

Focus of new admin will/should be repairing international relations, first.

Speculating on the country adopting stricter emissions control standards and acting like that is a bad thing, is completely selfish. Everyone knows internal combustion engines will soon be a thing of the past. Our kids and grandkids will forever be wondering why we were such assholes to the environment.

For me this kit is a step in the right direction. We all know how much better EFI controls emissions and fuel economy. My bus is tuned very well, but still smells like total shit if you are riding behind it compared to the other 99% of cars on the road.
Strange - my bus is almost as clean burning as my MDX. Unless you live in California and have had exposure to the smog laws here you really don't have any idea how nanny they are. Besides, California has already banned the sale of cars with internal combustion engines as of 2035. [Admin removed short political trolling statement]

Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:08 pm

Is there an early bay kit in the works? Are you going to sell any of the parts separately, like the engine mount?

Its cool that this finally happened. Good job.