TheSamba.com :: View topic - project git R done

Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:57 pm

I've been posting in the engine and transmission section about building the engine for this bus, and they suggested I post the bus itself here. Here's the engine thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=747408

This is a 1977 bus I got cheap from a friend, without an engine. The enginet was on stand and was stolen out of her backyard or something, I couldn't really follow the story. That was two years ago. I planned on doing an EV conversion, and even sourced a used motor, controller, and other parts, but other projects always came first. I got as far as replacing all the brakes except the booster and some of the hard lines, so I could flat tow it from my storage garage to my home garage, but that was all.

Coming to my storage garage:

Tucked away for a couple years. You can see the motor planned for the conversion.

I brought it home this weekend, and got the "Tow Free" off with some acetone. The paint is abysmal; when I first got the bus it had big blisters of water under the clearcoat.

The seats are out of a hotrod project El Camino. They aren't original to the El Camino, but they fit pretty good in here. The only issue is that they are tall, so you have to duck down to see traffic lights.

I was thinking I could make a big push during this week and get it close to running, so it would be ready for the engine, but it needs waaaay more work than I remembered. This is going to be a longer-term project. Yesterday I put on front shocks, tie rods, and drag link. And as I usually do, I cleaned everything I touched. It didn't seem to make much difference. The swing lever bushing is really sloppy, so I see that in my future.

I'll be simultaneously working on the bus, and on the engine. I'm not touchig the body at all. It's got a lot of rust, but nothing structural. My plan is to get mechanically very sound, with a strong engine. Then either sell it back to the previous owner, or drive it for a while then pass it on to someone who wants to do bodywork.

Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:37 am

I got a bit more done on the bus, although I've mostly been focused on getting the threaded oil gallery plugs done on the engine.

Two of the CV joint boots were torn, and I noticed that after the 0.5 mile flat tow here that melted grease was running out of one of the other boots, so I figured it was time for a repack.

I pulled off the driveshafts, and removed the CV joints, and one-by-one soaked each overnight in purple power degreaser. Then I rinsed out the joint, blew it dry with compressed air, then wet it down with white lithium grease and put it away to await its repack.

Boots arrived, so I greased the inside of the boots, packed the CV joints full of grease, and reassembled everything. What a messy job.

While the CV joints were being processed my OCD got the best of me, and I pulled out the transmission for cleaning. It was filthy, and I think I removed serveral pounds of crud with pressure washer and scrub brush. Now I can touch it without getting greasy. The transmission is waiting to go back in until the shift rod bushings arrive. Then I can do the rod, put the transmission back in, and put the axles back on. I'll change the oil in the trans just for good luck, but I'm on the fence about the front transmission mount. It's not torn, and looks newish, but the rubber is really soft. Are the new ones like that? Once the trans is in, it should be ready for the engine when the engine is assembled.

Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:36 am

Your OCD just resulted in a transaxle that will run cooler and last longer. :)

A softer a trans mount is the better choice, in my opinion, especially if it's in good physical shape otherwise. (I don't know if that mount is even available new, but the T1 engine mounts I've bought were all harder and transmitted more noise than OG mounts.)

While the transaxle is out, I would highly recommend replacing the ball in the nosecone. It's a simple procedure, well-documented on here, but some tips anyway:
- Have the transaxle level, or tilted slight nose-down during nosecone removal. Tilting up can allow grit/debris into the bearings.
- Be careful with the nosecone bolts on later transaxles; they like to strip above factory torque values.

What's your preference on stick shifts that have a "spring loaded" neutral selection? You can remove two springs, two circlips, and a bracket to remove the neutral spring "feature" if you want your shifter to feel more VW and less Audi.

It's probably easier to polish the starter mount and ground strap (got a new one?) attachment point while the transaxle is out of the car too.

Good luck!
Robbie

Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:35 am

some buses were sprayed with waxoyl or equal at the factory. What looks like crud is often a wax coating with dirt embedded in it. You can clean it more thorough and spray it with a heavy duty corrosion inhibitor that is essentially Cosmoline or WaxOyl. The trans case is made of a metal high in magnesium so coating it will slow corrosion.

Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:17 pm

airschooled wrote:
While the transaxle is out, I would highly recommend replacing the ball in the nosecone.

Seriously? I have to goggle and learn about yet another obscure aircooled VW thing? :) Okay, I google'd, and it looks like I need the steel shift ball, and the thrust plate from weddleindustries.com. Pull the nosecone, replace the ball, install the plate with Permatex on both sides, and refill the trans? Anything else?

airschooled wrote:
What's your preference on stick shifts that have a "spring loaded" neutral selection?

I like my shifters to snap back into the neutral position.

airschooled wrote:
It's probably easier to polish the starter mount and ground strap (got a new one?) attachment point while the transaxle is out of the car too.

I couldn't figure out why there was a ground strap, since the only electrical thing I saw was the switch for (presumably) reverse lights. But yes, starter. I'll clean the mount and grease it. The ground strap looks okay, but I'll put one on my list for the next order

Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:49 pm

You’ll only need the metal thrust plate from Weddle if your nose one has wear from the bearings. Post a picture once you get it off. If wear is large, you’ll need machine work to accommodate for the space of the plate. If wear is average, you can have a few thou machined off and skip the plate. If the transaxle is low mileage, or driven by a lolligagger, you can clean everything and stick it back together with gear-oil-safe sealant. Permeated makes on, it’s a dark green rtv and works well.

On an 091, if there is evidence of oil seepage out the hockey stick, replace the seals now since they’re impossible once the transaxle is installed.

I personally find output/side/differential seals much easier to do once installed, since the new seals are deeper than OG rubber, and take a bit more tapping.

Robbie

Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:59 pm

Go Back and unpack those CVs and repack with moly grease

Sorry

Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:35 pm

Abscate wrote: Go Back and unpack those CVs and repack with moly grease

Sorry
agree, white lithium grease is for door hinges and brake hardware etc., not extreme pressure applications.

Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:00 pm

SGKent wrote: Abscate wrote: Go Back and unpack those CVs and repack with moly grease

Sorry
agree, white lithium grease is for door hinges and brake hardware etc., not extreme pressure applications.

I was unclear, the white lithium was just to keep the surface rust off while I waited for the boot kits. Once they arrived I wiped off the white lithium, and used the moly grease that came with the boots.

Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:08 pm

It's a good day when you save four joints from needlessly burning.

I'm Breathing easier...

Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:28 pm

I've never found any rust on a Lobro CV joint.

Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:04 pm

If I am looking in the right place, there appears to be no wear at all. Are we looking for wear on the part that remains on the transmission, or on the nosecone that comes off the transmission? The shift ball is loose in its bushing, but looks okay.

Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:09 pm

even with the half moon key the 091 has, the outer race of the main bearing cuts slowly into the soft nosecone as it works. you'll feel where it is worn on the nosecone if it is. They all wear over time. As the bearing wears the nosecone, the bearing and mainshaft move outwards, changing the gear alignment.

Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:09 pm

Last picture, where the metal is shiny. It’s worn, but you’ll have to measure the “lip” left behind for us.

Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:00 pm

I have had excellent results with Waxoyl, it was developed for marine use and it really lasts. Super Lube 100% synthetic for the CV's, Moly is yesterdays lubricant.

Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:21 pm

From the one pic of the CV boots, they don't look like they're torn. If that is correct, and you still have them... Keep them!

Plenty of people have had issues with newer CV boots for one reason or another (myself included). Over on the Vanagon forums (they use the same parts for CVs) they have the same problems. But those who have old surviving boots, tend to report that they do better than anything available new (beyond one option that is available from your VW dealer).

I know Robbie said that if there wasn't much wear on the nose cone you don't need the thrust plate, but if you've still got all that apart, I would say it is worthwhile. The bearing tends to eventually migrate, and you've got it all apart now. Throwing the plate in means you at least don't have to worry about that.

Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:53 am

dlwilson wrote: The shift ball is loose in its bushing, but looks okay.
If the shift ball is plastic, replace it with a metal one. The plastic ones break.

Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:02 am

nos ones are out there. They last forever but slowly wear, and are hard to find. The steel ones don't break but they cause some rattle.

Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:13 am

I have ordered both ball and plate, although shipping delays mean they won't be here until next week. How do you replace the ball? I don't see any instructions on the internet. Is it simply a matter of forcing out the old one, and forcing in the new one?

The old CV boots were mostly rotted and torn, so not really candidates for reuse. One of the pages I read about repacking CV joints said to use your finger to spread grease in all the crevices of the new boots, so I was very careful to do that. It seems like it might make them last longer.

Currently waiting on parts for both the engine build, and the trans and shift rod servicing. I guess I can pull out the shift rod while I wait...

Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:02 am

So I got the thrust plate and ball from Weddle. That's pretty clever how you replace the ball. I'm not going to give away the secret here, since nobody answered my question, and I couldn't find it with a search, but if you look at it you will figure it out.

For the nosecone I used a piece of 50 grit emery paper to take out all the grove from the bearing. I may not have taken off a full 1mm like Weddle specifies, but close to it. I put RTV on both sides of the plate, as well as both surfaces of the nose cone and trans, and put it all back together with 14 ft/lbs. I also changed the oil with "Lucas Oil LUC10046 SAE 80W-90 Heavy Duty Gear Oil - 1 Gallon", yes, it's GL-4.

Once the trans was in I installed the repacked CV axles which have been waiting to go in. And before any of that I did the shift rod.

I pulled out both pieces of the rod and wire wheeled and painted them. Then new bushings along the rod, plus a new coupler at the trans. I couldn't buy a new front boot, and the rear boot I ordered turned out to actually be a boot for the nose cone, so I reused both shift rod boots. It was a pain to get the nose cone boot on, but I did it.

The shifter is still a bit sloppy. All I did for the actual shifter was wire wheel and paint most of it. Is there anything in the shifter itself that is a wear item to be replaced? Does the entire shifter get replaced?

Oh, and I replaced the rear shocks, which was simple. I'm still waiting for the driver's side tie rod, and a swing lever bushing repair kit, and I should be done with the underside of the bus. And I have a steering coupler rag joint that needs to go in that I keep forgetting about.

I'm not going to do ball joints until I've had a chance to drive the bus. Same with sway bars.

I'm finally just about ready to start engine assembly in the other thread.