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Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:27 am

Attempted getting into fixing the hazard/emergency lights today and found a rats nest of unexpected/unconnected wires. When looking at the wiring diagram, most of these unconnected wires would've connected to a 7 pin hazard switch.

Looks like my hazard switch was swapped out for a two-pin. Never seen these before, should I go back to the 7 pin or is there a way to get the 2 pin to work properly?

And this is the flasher switch I'm working with. not stock but the turn signals work fine with it.

Any suggestions?

Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:43 am

You don’t have to get that 7-pin if you don’t want hazards.

There’s a way to wire it up using a regular flasher can,
Probably like you have now.

Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:57 pm

That 2-pin flasher switch is used with the 9-pin (though only 7 are used on non-Buses) flasher relay. If your car is 12v, Wolfsburg West makes a repro 9-pin relay.

If you want to go with a modern 4-pin flasher relay you would need to swap out the flasher switch to one of the later ones.

Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:35 pm

If your car is a ‘68 that is the correct hazard switch. A ‘68 uses a 9 terminal flasher. Like someone said it can be purchased new from Wolfsburg West.

Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:13 pm

rustyfastback wrote: If your car is a ‘68 that is the correct hazard switch. A ‘68 uses a 9 terminal flasher. Like someone said it can be purchased new from Wolfsburg West.

I don’t think that is the correct hazard switch for a ‘68. I think ‘67 was the last year for the simple flasher w/ complex TS relay. My ‘68 has the 4 pin TS relay and 8/9 pin (depending on ground pin or not) hazard switch.

Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:14 pm

Judging by his choice of a '71 wiring diagram, I'd say he has a '71.

'71 used the complex 4-way switch, but a cheap relay. Both are usually findable in the classifieds.

Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:32 pm

Oops took a photo of the wrong diagram, I do have a '68. So the '68 came with the 9 prong flasher relay stock?

Is this what I'm looking for?

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2412071
or
https://www.jbugs.com/product/211953227B.html
or
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211953227BWW

thanks again :)

Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:38 pm

would this be correct?

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2215952

Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:24 pm

tbb wrote: Oops took a photo of the wrong diagram, I do have a '68. So the '68 came with the 9 prong flasher relay stock?

No, those are not correct for your 1968. The 1968s had the following:

Here is the emergency flasher.

And here is the turn signal relay.

The emergency flashers are not hard to come by new. I bought one from either CIP or Jbugs - can’t remember which. As Sjbartnik noted in an earlier post, not all of the terminals on that one will be used for your type 3.

The TS relay is a little harder. I’m not aware of anyone making new ones that look like the stock ones. You can buy a used one and hope it works, or buy a replacement board and put it inside of a stock plastic case from a dead one. I have other posts on this topic, as my TS wiring was messed up by a PO and I made a thesis out if it.

What does your existing TS relay look like?

Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:19 am

Yea in ‘68 they used the ‘67 style emergency flasher switch with the 9 pin relay. I have an early ‘68 that is 100% original & it uses the 9 pin flasher. I have also owned 4 other ‘68 square backs & the also had the 9 pin flasher.

Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:49 pm

Could have been a mid-year change; one may have to consult the parts book to see the chassis number where it switched.

Either will work if you have the right switch paired with the right relay, but it's easier to use whichever combination the car is already wired for so you don't have to reinvent the wheel wiring-wise.

Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:26 pm

RedSquare it looks like your turn signal flasher has more pins than mine. I just have the two pins.

So what is the proper relay for a 2 pin emergency flasher? The current TS relay is a 3 prong.

Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:37 pm

Your turn signal flasher relay is some sorta bullshit aftermarket FLAPS version. It's not a VW part.

If you get the correct one for your hazard switch, it will be the 9-pin relay.

Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:55 pm

I had to do the same thing in my 69 Notch. I actually found the EF Switch on Amazon super cheap. It did not have the Knob or retaining nut though so if you go that route, you'll need those too. I too had the can style TS Relay and had to replace it. I started with a newer "replacement" style relay but while my EFs and TSs work now, my speedo needle bounces. So I found some original TS Relays (Hella I think) here on the Samba a few weeks ago. I think the guy had a few left after I bought mine. Happy to help sort out the wires as they should be similar to mine. There is a great article in the Samba "How to" section on this.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=738568

Gary

https://www.amazon.com/Emergency-Flasher-Switch-Pr...amp;sr=8-1

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1999631

Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:56 pm

The two pin device in your photo is the emergency switch, not the TS flasher.

The cylindrical metallic TS relay in your photo is not correct for a ‘68. VW moved to that kind of TS relay in later years - 1971+ I think.

Anyway, I think sjbartnik’s comment was on point. VW did have two different Emergency flasher/TS relay combinations in this era. To get a functional system, you just need to make sure that you have a combination that goes together.

So whether your car originally came with that two pin emergency flasher or not, the correct TS relay to go with it is the 9 pin one you referenced in an earlier post. I know I said it wasn’t in an earlier reply, but that was because I had assumed you had the same emergency flasher that I had - but you don’t. My apologies for the confusion. Sounds like rustyfastback has the same set up you do in his ‘68. So if intend to keep that EF, and I don’t know why you wouldn’t, then the 9 pin is the way forward for you.

Note that the wiring diagram you had in an earlier post is not correct for your car. There are two different diagrams for the ‘68 - one shows my set up and the other shows yours. You’ll need that diagram to know what to wire to what when you get the new TS relay. Here it is. Note that they have broken it across two pages, with the TS relay on one and the EF on the other.

Here is the one with the TS relay - in the middle near the bottom.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/68_70_Type3_1_Mitchell.jpg

And here is the the one with the EF - on the left near the bottom.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/68_70_Type3_2_Mitchell.jpg

Curiously enough, there is another wiring diagram for the ‘68 that shows my wiring set up. I’m not sure why they have two for the same year. As best as I can figure, it may have been one set up for FI cars and the other for carbureted cars? That one is here, but that is just for academic purposes. In this set up, E3 is the EF switch and J2 is the relay.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/type3_6870.jpg

Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:37 pm

9 pin relay, got it. So I'm going for the "simple switch complex relay setup"

With the 9 pin relay does this run the turn signals as well or will I need the 4 pin turn signal relay as well?

Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:44 pm

you need both.

Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:52 am

No need for the 4 terminal flasher relay if you have the 9 pin flasher relay. ‘68 is a wiring diagram that is not shown in the technical part on the site. The one listed is actually for 68-70 is actually for a ‘70 model. Look at the ‘67 wiring diagram & it will show the wiring. Keep in mind not all 9 terminals are used.

Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:04 am

I'll just chime in that there are WAY too many variations in the wiring with these cars.

My late '66/early '67 had a 12-fuse box but was wired like the earlier 10-fuse,
And none of the wiring diagrams showed this setup.
I'm sure it was OG to the car.

So,
Be on the lookout for the possibility you have some type of half-way transition that was used for such a short time there's no documentation for it.

I just rearranged mine to something more standard so i don't drive myself crazy later on one day.

Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:19 am

my chime in (sorry if this was already addressed)

the 7 pin / 9 pin was prone to failure, leaving no turn signals. the boxes used to be expensive, and VW owners are cheap, so someone decided turn signals were more important that 4 way flashers on your car. they did what all bus owners did in the 80's and 90's, made it work with a 3 pin flasher from the auto parts store. If you don't need 4 ways, it's the cheapest and easiest solution. instructions are here with good diagrams:

http://type2.com/library/electris/vw-9prong.html

may help you if you are trying to reverse all of it