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Peter - Belgium Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:51 am

Hello all,

I have a donor ragtop roof cut from a bus which would need a complete revision, but saw the sets they sell are pre or post 63... and I'm not sure which one I have or how I can assess which set to order:

Anyone any idea looking at the below pics:








What would be the main difference between the pre and post 63 models?

and what exactly is the function of these little blocks?


Thanks!
Peter

Eric&Barb Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:41 pm

Update title to "Samba sunroof: pre or post 63", hopefully that will get you more of the folks in the know about that.

Peter - Belgium Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:03 pm

Eric&Barb wrote: Update title to "Samba sunroof: pre or post 63", hopefully that will get you more of the folks in the know about that.

Good point:-) done!

Lind Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:36 pm

got a pic of the header bow and handle?

Peter - Belgium Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:21 am

That would be these:







it did not come with an handle unfortunately

ozinbc Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:06 am

It looks the same as my original sunroof mechanism- including those small buffers. Bus is a '66 euro import.
I cannot swear to it as I have yet to fit my headliner ( I have a NOS black dot liner) which has a folded edge- I would think the blocks fit inside the fold with the screw through both bits of the material. If you lok at your pic, there is clearly headliner material under the block, and as we know the screw/washer is visible from the inside so the visible headliner must cover it and fold over it.
I would love for someone who knows for sure to add to this???

RWK Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:04 am

I will check my 62 and get back

Clara Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:30 pm

Peter - Belgium wrote: Hello all,

I have a donor ragtop roof cut from a bus which would need a complete revision, but saw the sets they sell are pre or post 63... and I'm not sure which one I have or how I can assess which set to order:


What year bus do you have?
The Bentley Manual probably shows how the parts go together.

Here is a Parts List, which has a ton of info:
http://oacdp.org/5867part.html

You can look in group 8 for sunroof parts, and see which parts changed at what VIN.

such as...

Tizian Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:22 pm

Looks like youíre having a post 63 sunroof.

This is an illustration of the pre 63 parts book:



Part number 27 is much shorter in the pre 63 version.

The parts book of the post 63 variant however is not complete. Itís missing the rubber cushion (part 35).

I have a 67 deluxe and cannot remember having those blocks you were refering to. I can believe these are used as spacers to even out the gap between the headliner and the body. Those are the areas where the headliner starts tearing first...

j.pickens Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:47 pm

Peter - Belgium wrote:

and what exactly is the function of these little blocks?




There are three blocks in the photo.

The big black blocks slide in the aluminum sunroof rail.

The middle phenolic blocks slide on the opposite side of the aluminum rails to create an edge to pinch the mechanism into the rails.

The fiberboard blocks with the trim screws back up the interior sunroof lining to hold it at the right level in the sandwich, and give the lining something to stretch against when closed.
If you remove the trim screw from the fiberboard, you may find remnants of the original lining pinched in there.

ozinbc Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:04 pm

"The fiberboard blocks with the trim screws back up the interior sunroof lining to hold it at the right level in the sandwich, and give the lining something to stretch against when closed.
If you remove the trim screw from the fiberboard, you may find remnants of the original lining pinched in there".


said it much better than I attempted. I do not see these blocks on any parts diagram, but I know they came off my mechanism, and appear to be on yours as well - maybe a very late upgrade (my bus a Feb 66 german build)

Clara Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:24 pm

Tizian wrote: Looks like youíre having a post 63 sunroof.

This is an illustration of the pre 63 parts book:

Part number 27 is much shorter in the pre 63 version.

The parts book of the post 63 variant however is not complete. Itís missing the rubber cushion (part 35).

I have a 67 deluxe and cannot remember having those blocks you were refering to. I can believe these are used as spacers to even out the gap between the headliner and the body. Those are the areas where the headliner starts tearing first...

No, the numbers on the illustration are not Part Numbers.
The text refers to them as Key Numbers.
Use the pages following the Illustration, to find the VW Part Number.

There will be Key No, then Part Number, then a description of the part with when it was used if needed, then how many were used, and then on what model.
click on the pic I posted to enlarge it, and read the right side.
Follow the link I posted, to find more pages with more info.

If you look at the text page I posted, some parts are used through Ch 1 260 106, and another version from Chassis 1 260 107.

Some parts are not differentiated that way, which means the same version was used in early and late split sunroofs.

j.pickens Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:42 pm

ozinbc wrote: "The fiberboard blocks with the trim screws back up the interior sunroof lining to hold it at the right level in the sandwich, and give the lining something to stretch against when closed.
If you remove the trim screw from the fiberboard, you may find remnants of the original lining pinched in there".


said it much better than I attempted. I do not see these blocks on any parts diagram, but I know they came off my mechanism, and appear to be on yours as well - maybe a very late upgrade (my bus a Feb 66 german build)
I think the fiberboard blocks are item 34 on the drawing, though the drawing shows it having two holes.

ozinbc Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:04 pm

re key # 34- I think the part indicated is the foam "anti-rattle" packing that slots into the hoops with the guide plate, held by the 2 sex bolts (or barrel bolts if you prefer)

Tizian Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:03 am

ozinbc wrote: re key # 34- I think the part indicated is the foam "anti-rattle" packing that slots into the hoops with the guide plate, held by the 2 sex bolts (or barrel bolts if you prefer)

Yes, 34 is the anti-rattle plate.

For comparison the barndoor schematics from the OACDP page:




There are no such blocks here as well. But as I said before the parts books are sometimes missing parts. And there exist many, many revisions of them...

Douglas Denlinger Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:56 am

Peter,

The set of rails you have are most likely late 64-67.

The fiber/panel spacer was only used on vinyl headliner era buses.

Also from my experience the header bow, the closing mechanism shaft for the chrome Golde handle will be different for an early handle (50's thru 63) from a 64 thru 67 folding/pivoting Golde handle.

Hope that helps

BarryL Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:52 pm

Douglas Denlinger wrote: The set of rails you have are most likely late 64-67.
Where is a picture of the rails?

Peter - Belgium Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:53 am

Thanks all! super usefull... now at least I'm sure which rebuilt kit to order (and they do not come cheap, so better to get the right one!).

Douglas, on your note regarding the handle. I do not have one, but prefer the older style. You mention the shaft is different, but can I fit the old one or I need that pivotting style later one?

Thanks,
Peter

ozinbc Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:08 am

less likely to bump your head with the later style!

Douglas Denlinger Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:03 am

Peter,

To answer that question, I need to know the year bus your planning to install the sunroof assembly in?

As a base line we will assume 63 and earlier.....although there is a chance that early 64 may have had the early handle....my reasoning is early 64 still had the ice pick door handles and 15 inch rims. Its been at least 10/15 years since I worked on a earlier 64.

As previously mentioned the shaft on the turning mechanism is different between the early( again as a base line 55-63) then the 64 and later. The collars with the spring that are placed under the handle are different as well.

The problem that you will most likely encounter is getting the handle set pin to engage correctly or not at all therefore causing the handle to not be secure and drop off. The solution IF available is to buy the 63 and earlier turning mechanism to replace the later mechanism with the shorter shaft.....then the earlier handle will fit.

I should mention.....I have not worked on a reproduction mechanism....so prehaps the reproduction is a one size fits all???? As far as the shaft is concerned??? Definitely a question to ask if you decide to change out the mechanism.


Hope that helps



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