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jacobcallaghan Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:39 pm

Hello samba friends,

My 67 riviera has been giving me issues lately. Itís started with intermittent starting issues where the starter would not engage. Thought it was my starter so popped a new one in... same thing. Got another starter... same thing. Got new grounds. Same thing. Got a new battery same thing...

So I thought it has to be my bushing. Put in a new one. Same thing.... clicks but nothing actually goes. So I thought must have installed it wrong. So got another one... same exact thing. Got another starter bushing and same thing. Here I am stumped.

I have tried 5 different starters all different brands and ages. I have tried 3 different starter bushings.

So I tried my buddies automatic starter. Fired right up.

So I know the issue is in my bushing. What could I be doing wrong here?

Bus is a 67 with bug tranny (irs) 12v

Braukuche Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:22 am

jacobcallaghan wrote: Hello samba friends,

My 67 riviera has been giving me issues lately. Itís started with intermittent starting issues where the starter would not engage. Thought it was my starter so popped a new one in... same thing. Got another starter... same thing. Got new grounds. Same thing. Got a new battery same thing...

So I thought it has to be my bushing. Put in a new one. Same thing.... clicks but nothing actually goes. So I thought must have installed it wrong. So got another one... same exact thing. Got another starter bushing and same thing. Here I am stumped.

I have tried 5 different starters all different brands and ages. I have tried 3 different starter bushings.

So I tried my buddies automatic starter. Fired right up.

So I know the issue is in my bushing. What could I be doing wrong here?

Bus is a 67 with bug tranny (irs) 12v

Buy a type 3 auto stick starter.

Daddybus Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:13 am

Check your ignition switch.

Erik G Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:15 am

Braukuche wrote:

Buy a type 3 auto stick starter.


type 3's never had an auto stick...

brothernumberone Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:26 pm

If you can hear it click itís unlikely to be the ignition switch. Sounds like voltage drop. Fit a hard start relay👍

Busted-bolt Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:58 pm

You could try to run a hard ground direct to the starter housing.

busdaddy Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:15 pm

Before throwing a bunch of parts at it do some basic testing, it's free and is likely to expose more issues than just the starting.
As mentioned the ignition switch could be to blame, or any of the power junctions between the battery, up to the switch and back to the starter, or a ground between the transmission and body or even between the starter and trans. The tests below will rule out the starter, if it works it's time to find the bad connection in the rest of the circuit.
:!: Make sure the trans is in neutral and the brake is on, running yourself over is stupid and hurts! :!:


flemcadiddlehopper Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:02 pm

I hate to be the one to ask the obvious (but, often overlooked) question, but, Does the engine turn over by hand?

gordo.

Eric&Barb Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:56 pm

Clean and dielectric grease up the ground between starter body and transaxle. Do same with the starter solenoid and the starter ground.

Braukuche Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:47 pm

Erik G wrote: Braukuche wrote:

Buy a type 3 auto stick starter.


type 3's never had an auto stick...

Right, should have said automatic or type 1 autostick.

jacobcallaghan Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:42 pm

Thanks for the replies guys!

To clarify a few things.

-engine runs and turns great by hand. Itís a newer motor

-I have done all new grounds and cleaned them thoroughly.

-it could be my ignition... but I have ran the bus with my friends auto stick starter and it worked great no issues. Sadly he needed it back shortly after I tried it out.

-I have tried many different starters and all had different ish results. Some kinda working (sometimes it start the bus). Some clicking. Sometimes I turn the key and loose all power to the bus for a couple of minutes and then it returns.


I have not tried running it with bypassing my ignition. But if the auto stick works wouldnít that rule that out?

I am stumped. But I did put a different starter in today and 8 times out of 10 itís starts. So??? Progress haha

Busted-bolt Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:06 pm

I would be skeptical of the electrical connections feeding the ignition switch.For a 67 I think there is a wire that comes from the fuze box that feeds it ,On older busses there is one that is plugged in to the back of head light switch that feeds the ignition . I replaced most of the female spade connectors on my bus because they were brittle and cracked causing loose connections and all kinds of glitches.

Eric&Barb Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:23 pm

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=483901&highlight=fuse+box+soldering

EZ Westy Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:37 am

I had a similar problem with my single cab a year ago. I tried switching the starter, changed the ignition, cleaned the grounds, installed a hot start relay, the problem was still intermittent. Very frustrating.... Turned out to be my flywheel. The teeth were chewed up in spots. If it stopped where a chewed up spot was, the next start up would result in the dreaded "click".
Check your flywheel for damage. Hope this helps.

Eric&Barb Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:59 am

http://type2.com/library/electris/vw-hauptlicht-schalter.html

Purple Frog Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:22 pm

Engines usually stop in one or two places.
Next time, turn the engine by hand like 90 degrees. Then hit starter. That will tell you if it is a problem with flywheel teeth.

johny__utah Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:17 pm

Consider a high torque starter. I made the switch years ago for all my past and current VW's. I gave up on rebuilt "new" Bosch starters years ago for the same reason. WASP just came out with a new one.

Old Paint Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:03 pm

Had the same problem with my Single Cab many years ago. Turns out trans ground strap was not connected. You can bypass all the ignition switch etc and run a line from the male spade connector on the starter back to the battery. CAREFULLY touch the bare end of the wire to the positive on the battery. It should turn over. I ran that as my ignition switch until I found the ground strap.

galexander Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:25 pm

Couple of things to double check:

1. Check the starter bushing in the transaxle, make sure it is the correct one for the starter you are using.

2. What flywheel do you have, 6V or 12V, could be the starter and flywheel teeth are not always meshing nicely.

3. On most buses if you have not put in a new wiring harness, the OG wires develop resistance over the years, so sometimes just not enough juice going back to the starter to engage the solenoid when you turn the key.

4. On any Bus I run across that has OG wiring harness, I install a hard start relay. Peace of mind and usually cures what ails the Bus.

good luck
gary

jacobcallaghan Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:31 pm

Thanks for all the great responses. I think my issue might lie in the fuse box but I have to dig deeper.

Speaking of flywheels sadly me being the idiot I am thought my big pole and breaker bar would torque my flywheel close enough for government work. To no surprise it did not and I wallowed my crank and flywheel like no other. Needles to say I had to strip down the whole engine and pop a new crank. So starter issues are a bit on hold until I fix my big mistake. Ya live and learn



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