TheSamba.com :: View topic - Show me your rail buggy shifter and linkage

Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:56 pm

I've only had this buggy a few weeks and trying to sort out multiple issues. One problem is I can't get it adjusted to shift into all the gears. Both the front bushing and rear coupler seem to be okay.

It has a rod that has been shortened and welded together which may be contributing to or causing the problem. The box is a box welded on top of a box that is slightly below the level of the input rod on the trans. The bend they put in the rod running from the box to the trans looks like it is no more extreme than the bend in a stock bug rod.

I can move it around and get any one gear to engage completely so I think the transmission is okay. I just can't find a sweet spot that allows me to select all 4 gears and reverse with the shift plate tightened.

What have you rail buggy builders found to make them shift right? It would be great if you could provide pictures of your complete linkage as well as feedback on what shifter has worked best for you.

Thanks in advance for any help you provide.

Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:35 pm

Smooth as buttah

Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:49 pm

Scruffy Buggy wrote: .I can move it around and get any one gear to engage completely so I think the transmission is okay. I just can't find a sweet spot that allows me to select all 4 gears and reverse with the shift plate tightened.

Do you have a jam nut on the linkage at the shifter where it is threaded?

Also...
ashman40 wrote: If you have trouble getting into reverse... Slide the base of the shift towards the right (away from reverse).
If you have trouble getting into 2nd... slide the base toward 4th.
If you have trouble getting into 1st & 3rd... slide the base rearward towards 2nd & 4th.

Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:20 am

Mine has no jam nut or adjustment on the shaft. The shaft appears to be a stock shaft that was cut down and welded back together in two places.

I am thinking they may have got it clocked wrong.

Also thinking about cutting it at the back and adding a universal type solid coupler like the one pictured above.

I should probably just spring for the setup pictured above and be done with it.
I don't see how that works that well with the offset though. Seems like it would need universal joints at both ends of the shaft if the shifter box isn't aligned with the trans input.

Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:31 am

Scruffy Buggy wrote: Mine has no jam nut or adjustment on the shaft. The shaft appears to be a stock shaft that was cut down and welded back together in two places.

I am thinking they may have got it clocked wrong.

Also thinking about cutting it at the back and adding a universal type solid coupler like the one pictured above.

I should probably just spring for the setup pictured above and be done with it.
I don't see how that works that well with the offset though. Seems like it would need universal joints at both ends of the shaft if the shifter box isn't aligned with the trans input.

Usually a good solution is to add an "adjuster" to the shift rod, it can compensate for minor length problems or orientation of coupler on trans end with the cup at shifter end... There are two version depending on what's on your buggy...

Box coupler for late model...

Donut Coupler for early model..

Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:02 am

I may have created part of my problem. It didn't work right from the start but as I was working on it the thin nuts under the box came loose. I replaced them with rivnuts which stick down in the box some. I drilled those out this morning.

Right now i have some short bolts holding some nuts with epoxy on them to try and retain them in the box. I went ahead and cut the rear area of the box so I can get a wrench in in case the epoxy doesn't hold.

I also discovered my coupler would move a little in relation to the grub screw so I crimped it better and it seems solid now.

Next step may be to order the adjuster and a new coupler. I assume the long nut that comes with the adjuster welds into the end of the shaft?

Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:00 pm

Scruffy Buggy wrote: I may have created part of my problem. It didn't work right from the start but as I was working on it the thin nuts under the box came loose. I replaced them with rivnuts which stick down in the box some. I drilled those out this morning.

Right now i have some short bolts holding some nuts with epoxy on them to try and retain them in the box. I went ahead and cut the rear area of the box so I can get a wrench in in case the epoxy doesn't hold.

I also discovered my coupler would move a little in relation to the grub screw so I crimped it better and it seems solid now.

Next step may be to order the adjuster and a new coupler. I assume the long nut that comes with the adjuster welds into the end of the shaft?

Correct and be sure you have be flats on the sleeve facing in a direction its easy to get a wrench on....

Dale

Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:21 pm

I couldn't get the nuts to stick. The front of the box is accessible and easy to get a wrench on. I took a hole saw to the side to get wrench access for the rear nut.

I'm afraid something is out of whack in the nose cone. The hockey stick shaft doesn't have a lot of rotation movement even with the linkage rod disconnected. With the linkage rod connected it only moves the shifter socket from center to right. The socket doesn't move left of center at all. It IS in neutral and I can get several forward gears but can no longer get it to go in reverse at all.

Have search all of you tube trying to find a video to see how much movement it SHOULD have and came up blank.

Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:56 pm

I ordered the EMPI shifter and linkage setup pictured above. I will post a follow up if it fixes my problems.

Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:41 am

Before I put mine into use, I took it apart and cleaaned up all of the rough edges inside. Seems like every empi product I used needed a little attention.

Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:11 pm

cbeck wrote: Smooth as buttah

I have a recently acquired Chenowth buggy with that same EMPI Super shifter. Forward gears it works nice. Reverse lock-out is a MAJOR PITA! :x

In the late 80s, I put an original Jamar Super Shifter (that the EMPI is an imitation of) in a customer's race buggy. THAT shifter was smooth as warm butter. I'm going to rebuild mine and see if it improves. It DOES need a new shifter boot. And that just may be the problem with it.

Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:53 am

cbeck wrote: Before I put mine into use, I took it apart and cleaaned up all of the rough edges inside. Seems like every empi product I used needed a little attention.

Yeah I just received some EMPI chrome molly pushrods and they said right on the package it wasn't cleaned and oiled for installation. It seems they would make sure it was totally clean before pressing the balls in so hopefully they didn't just cut the tubes and press them together dirty.

Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:38 am

Had one of those shifters got rid of it.Now have the jamar Pro x and love it it uses splines vs the jam nut deal so adjusting it is easy then.It also has an asjustable piece to limit the throw for reverse,then you push down to go into reverse.

Shift rod i use u joints on front and trans side.Worth the money spent on it.

Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:33 pm

dustymojave wrote: cbeck wrote: Smooth as buttah

I have a recently acquired Chenowth buggy with that same EMPI Super shifter. Forward gears it works nice. Reverse lock-out is a MAJOR PITA! :x

In the late 80s, I put an original Jamar Super Shifter (that the EMPI is an imitation of) in a customer's race buggy. THAT shifter was smooth as warm butter. I'm going to rebuild mine and see if it improves. It DOES need a new shifter boot. And that just may be the problem with it.

Hard to reach that reverse lock out with belts on I bet!
Have the passenger push it.

eQ

Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:15 am

Push down with the side of your palm, pull over and back with index finger, move it foward with your thumb. Fresh trans was also smooth. Located right behond my kneecap.

Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:03 am

Some lube and working it in and the EMPI is working pretty well now. I use that same side of the palm move for reverse. But before it wouldn't work. I couldn't push it down hard enough to release the reverse lockout. Some scotch brite on the lockout shaft plus some WD40 Rust Penetrant helped a lot.

Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:05 pm

Well the Empi Super Shifter didn't solve my troubles. In fact it seems almost exactly like it was before so I just wasted another chunk of money.

I can get first and third but it doesn't want to stay in second or forth and I can no longer get it in reverse. Even first and third I have to shove it into gear with some effort. I suspect I bent the hockey stick or something else went wrong.

I guess I will pull the trans and have a look in the nose cone.

Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:56 pm

Pulled the nose cone today. I was able to get it off with the trans in the frame with no problem. Looks like the shift ball is egged out. I imagine that could be enough to cause my troubles given the small range of movement to select all the gears. Going to a old local VW shop tomorrow to see if they have one. He said he had the lever with the ball in it so I will see if it matches mine.

Update:
The local shop had a selector fork with the ball that matched mine. I can't tell if it was new but the ball showed no signs of wear compared to mine. The ball was pretty loose in the socket and the pin end of the hockey stick was fairly loose in the hole. Seems like it would have as much or more slop than my worn one but I went ahead and installed it. The ball in mine was stuck tight and wouldn't turn in the socket. I had to destroy it to get it out.

Before starting I drained the mud out and sprayed it out with diesel fuel to try and clean it good. I lubed everything in the shift selector and hockey stick good with red grease. My nose cone has linear bearings in the front and back for the hockey stick and they held the stick snug and slid fine after lubing them.

The pin that holds the selector shaft in goes in from the bottom and fell out as soon as I pulled the housing off. To get it to stay put long enough to reassemble everything I punched a couple of peens on each side where it went in the bottom of the u bracket. That worked great to hold it in position while I reassembled the housing and hockey stick.

Sitting on jack stands it slides in and out of all 4 gears and reverse with little to no effort so I'm in hopes it is fixed and remains so. I still need to fill with oil and I'm going to address the running issues before I test drive.

Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:01 pm

Hmm so you got ya' a bus box there! Excellent, I hope it ends up being workable. Do you know about the super cheap steel shift ball thing you can get? Also, if you're that deep, check out adding a main bearing thrust plate. Interesting also, the nosecone bearings you describe only come stock in the 6-rib bus boxes, which are one of the best transmissions you could have. They also fit on 3-rib bus boxes if one so desires, but it's not original.

Just look up "VW T2 bearing thrust plate" and also "VW bus steel shift ball"

Make sure to de-burr the steel shift balls, mine have needed a little blending on the edges.

Does your transmission look like this kinda?

Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:59 pm

Mine is a 3 rib bus trans.

I was aware of the steel balls but didn't want to wait to order one.

I didn't know the two bearing nose cone was from a newer box. In my online studies I learned the newer trans also have a spring loaded selector shaft that could also be retro fitted to the type 2 box.

That bearing plate you refer to I saw on a video but my thought was the bearings should be held flush by the nose cone. I measured and confirmed those thoughts while I had the nose cone off. The top bearing on mine would in fact move back a hair when I worked the shift levers with the cone off. When you install the nose cone it has a circle area that fits flush against the top bearing and a little tab at the bottom that come up high enough to hold the bottom bearing in.

Whoever came up with the notion it needed a bar across the two bearings didn't take into account the nose cone would hold them in.