TheSamba.com :: View topic - Porsche 597 Jagdwagen - need flywheel

Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:21 am

Hello everybody,
I am the owner of a Porsche 597 Jagdwagen.
I am currently rebuilding a second original engine for it and searching for a original flywheel.

I would also be interested in knowing if there are Jagdwagen(s) overseas to add to the
Porsche Club register for the Porsche 597 Jagdwagen list with the according chassis numbers. And thus
find out more about the whereabouts of some not yet found cars of this extremely rare Porsche.
You are very welcome to send constructive messages directly to my email address:
(removed email address, contact me via PM for details)

Thank you for your help
Best regards Christian

P.S.
I am too old for this internet stuff and therefore a very good friend of my son
is writing this request ;)

So the good friend of his son is me.
Everything written in here I will forward to him.

@EverettB - since this is as close as it can get to a Kübelwagen I posted it here, will crosspost to the Porsche section as it is a car built by Porsche.
Feel free to delete eather one

Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:38 am

There is for sure one Typ 597 in Sweden, maybe two. Do you have these cars in your Registry?

Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:26 am

not sure this is the best place for the jagdwagen as they were made after 53. is it a 1.5 litre and weren't they based on the porsche 356 engine?

Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:29 am

One has recently being destroyed in a Fire at the Timmelsjoch hochalpenstrasse Austria.. High mountain Motorcicle museum went up in flames with +250 unique motorcycles and a few cars ... includes a 356 convertible and a jagdwagen.

Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:40 pm

peter schepens wrote: One has recently being destroyed in a Fire at the Timmelsjoch hochalpenstrasse Austria.. High mountain Motorcicle museum went up in flames with +250 unique motorcycles and a few cars ... includes a 356 convertible and a jagdwagen.

that looks pretty terminal!

looks like it was a nice museum.

Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:11 pm

that looks pretty terminal!

Seems not if you lok at their website: https://www.crosspoint.tirol/ in which it says: We have closed from Tuesday 2020/11/03 due to the new COVID19 quarantine.
We are planning to reopen our restaurant with fresh staff and during the normal opening hours after the official end of the quarantine restriction.

Should this not be possible due to a possible extension of the lockdown, we will of course inform you immediately on our Facebook fanpage or via our newsletter (register here) about the new opening date. At the moment we are clearing up our museum, which was unfortunately destroyed by a violent fire - immediately afterwards we will start to rebuild our TOP Mountain Motorcycle Museum!

We are looking forward to your visit and seeing you again soon in Obergurgl / Hochgurgl / Gurgl!

Let's hope they build it next time with something less combustible!

I did see that there was also a green, split, pick up truck in the collection as well.

Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:28 pm

Ok, I'll try to get this as straight as possible, I'm neither a native english speaker nor a pro when it comes to technical details so bear with me (me being the one posting)

@SplitPersonality:
We know of one Jagdwagen in Sweden with chassis number 597xxx7
(I, Earl Bay, have the family name but decided not to post it on a public forum)
Could you please get in contact with Christian if you have details of the second one?

@finster
Is that your Jagdwagen?
The engine isn't original, the regulator on the wall to the left isn't correct and is converted to 12V. Is that a 356 engine?
How is that engine connected to the original gear box?

Yes the 597 engine was based on the 356 but they used industrial motors which were converted to 24V. The difference are minor details inside the case.
In general one can say fitting a 356 motor isn't exactly straightforward. Not chassis wise and not on the flywheel side.
The flywheel of the 356 doesn't fit. The sprocket (gear ring?) will, but the flywheel itself is 70mm large. So in theory with the sprocket and a lathe you could fabricate a flywheel but until now that is out of the question for monetary reasons.

We know of 2 Jagdwagen in the US. 597xxx4 and 597xxxxx8. But we don't know if the owner(s?) are still the same as the ones in the list.

Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:17 pm

hi,
that is not my jagdwagen (wish it was) it was sold by bonhams in 2016 see
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23595/lot/138/

Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:41 pm

Wow - Sold for £175,100 inc. premium back in 2016. How much now?

That spare wheel is definitely an after thought, and detracts from an otherwise nice looking vehicle. Forward vision can't have been that great either. As for style, the Kubel wins hands down.

Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:06 pm

Martin Southwell wrote: that looks pretty terminal!
Let's hope they build it next time with something less combustible!

I did see that there was also a green, split, pick up truck in the collection as well.

they may be able to build a new museum, but there were quite a few loaner bikes. i bet they won't be getting any new ones.....

there were also some really rare bikes, like the flying merkel, those were only made from 1911-1915. any bike that is over 100 years old is not that easy to replace.

let's hope that "wheels through time" is fireproof.
https://wheelsthroughtime.com/museum/?gclid=Cj0KCQ...F-EALw_wcB

Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:31 pm

Got an update.

In regards to Martin Southwelds thoughts about the spare wheel:
It should also be mentioned that Porsche had to make a recess in the front tank for the reserve canister required by the Bundeswehr and that no other space could be found without meeting other requirements.
In fact the view to the front is not that bad, better than the old Landrover Defender with spare wheel on the hood and better than some modern SUV's and passenger cars.
:wink:

Actually there should be no discussion about the pros and cons of the Porsche. It's really all about finding people who own a Jagdwagen, or have parts they want to sell especially a flywheel.
In 2010 I was able to buy several parts from a "collector" from the USA. However, he can no longer be reached by mail.

Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:11 pm

I believe there were only 75 produced? If I remember correctly the 597 was rejected and Porsche tried to sell them to the public and was not successful. Can anyone confirm or deny this.

Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:15 pm

Something between 71 and 75 I have heard was built.
And they are amphbious /floating.

Built side by side with 550 Spyder in the racing / prototype shop.
Some 597s actually have Spyder taillights and speedster front seats and fuel filler neck being same as on Carrera.

Compared to a Kübel or 181 the 597 is huge.
And as a Kübel can´t go into water the 597 are way cooler and are proper 4x4.

Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:35 pm

Not sure if the link will work.
https://www.facebook.com/ILoveWpg/photos/pcb.5805652516127444/5805644912794871

Gruessen.

Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:15 pm

my dad got to test drive it when he was in the bundeswehr. He said it had a "whisper mode" to quietly sneak up on enemy encampments in the dark. He says it worked well. He felt the only reason not get it was pricing.
and, no i don't have any parts. Just saying that my dad loved it.

Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:06 pm

mandraks wrote: my dad got to test drive it when he was in the bundeswehr. He said it had a "whisper mode" to quietly sneak up on enemy encampments in the dark. He says it worked well. He felt the only reason not get it was pricing.
and, no i don't have any parts. Just saying that my dad loved it.

The 597 were all to be considered prototypes and were never sold to the public.

They were evaluated by some European forces and they found that it was not competitive so the project was discontinued.

Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:20 pm

Brezelmeister wrote: mandraks wrote: my dad got to test drive it when he was in the bundeswehr. He said it had a "whisper mode" to quietly sneak up on enemy encampments in the dark. He says it worked well. He felt the only reason not get it was pricing.
and, no i don't have any parts. Just saying that my dad loved it.

The 597 were all to be considered prototypes and were never sold to the public.

They were evaluated by some European forces and they found that it was not competitive so the project was discontinued.

don't tell my dad that, he felt it was awesome. he would have never picked the DKW Munga on merit, only on price.

Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:33 am

@mandraks
thanks for the FB link, my son will have a look at it the days.

@Brezelmeister and Type914
Around 70/71 were built in total, at least that's how many chassis numbers Porsche themselves are aware of.
There was only one with doors!
The Spyder tail lights are very close to the original, see our pictures.

The Jagdwagen was/is floatable. In the water, however, it behaved like an unmanoeuvrable pontoon, with minimal propulsion from its own wheels and virtually unmanoeuvrable.

After its retirement as a commander's car for the Bundeswehr, the prototypes did go to the civilian market.
My Jagdwagen is from the experimental department in Stuttgart, the next owner was a textile manufacturer, then the fire brigade in Morsbach.

The History of 597:

https://cms.porsche-clubs.com/porscheclubs/pc_jagd...5A004A156D

https://newsroom.porsche.com/pdf/print/87ef411c-7b33-4cef-96fe-d41161fbfa69

Restoration report:
https://cms.porsche-clubs.com/porscheclubs/pc_jagd...AE0025EF69

Some pictures of it:
https://cms.porsche-clubs.com/porscheclubs/pc_jagd...AF002B6A97

Best regards,
Christian