TheSamba.com :: View topic - questions regarding Topline's 7/8" front sway bar; stock height

Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:53 am

Hello! I have heard many awesome things about Topline Parts, and bought several items for our 74 super myself. But there is one thing I have been looking at lately, and that's their bigger 7/8" front sway bar for stock height Supers. They make a claim about their sway bar in the product description that is not explained further that I don't understand. They say that "The binding of the sway bar as it passes through the lower control arm bushing is eliminated". What 'binding' are they referring to? How is it eliminated by using their sway bar?? That's what I'm trying to wrap my mind around. If someone here can explain this in more detail so I can understand it, I will most definitely buy it! Thank you in advance!
https://www.toplineparts2.com/sway-bar-for-super-beetles-74-79-stock.html

Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:38 am

Hi Ken,

Over here now looking for info I see. I'd just call Jon at TopLine and ask him your question directly. He's great to deal with, and will be the one most likely to pick up the phone when you call. He should be able to explain it to you the best. Also ask him about why a larger sway bar in the front verses the rear while you have him.

Bill

Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:08 am

beetlenut wrote: Hi Ken,

Over here now looking for info I see. I'd just call Jon at TopLine and ask him your question directly. He's great to deal with, and will be the one most likely to pick up the phone when you call. He should be able to explain it to you the best. Also ask him about why a larger sway bar in the front verses the rear while you have him.

Bill
do I know you from facebook? is that where you got my name from? lolol

Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:25 am

Junkyardjockey wrote: beetlenut wrote: Hi Ken,

Over here now looking for info I see. I'd just call Jon at TopLine and ask him your question directly. He's great to deal with, and will be the one most likely to pick up the phone when you call. He should be able to explain it to you the best. Also ask him about why a larger sway bar in the front verses the rear while you have him.

Bill
do I know you from facebook? is that where you got my name from? lolol

Yes, I was just talking to you earlier this morning on FB about the front swaybar being larger than the rear swaybar. I think I also sent you some extra brake line clamps I had from TopLine a while back.

Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:29 am

beetlenut wrote: Junkyardjockey wrote: beetlenut wrote: Hi Ken,

Over here now looking for info I see. I'd just call Jon at TopLine and ask him your question directly. He's great to deal with, and will be the one most likely to pick up the phone when you call. He should be able to explain it to you the best. Also ask him about why a larger sway bar in the front verses the rear while you have him.

Bill
do I know you from facebook? is that where you got my name from? lolol

Yes, I was just talking to you earlier this morning on FB about the front swaybar being larger than the rear swaybar. I think I also sent you some extra brake line clamps I had from TopLine a while back.
yes you did! they work awesome; thanks! Our super is up on jackstands now & when I heard that their redesign of the front sway bar was an improvement I was immediately interested. I have to wait until 12pm EST to call Cali tho.....thanks Bill!

Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:44 am

Junkyardjockey wrote: beetlenut wrote: Junkyardjockey wrote: beetlenut wrote: Hi Ken,

Over here now looking for info I see. I'd just call Jon at TopLine and ask him your question directly. He's great to deal with, and will be the one most likely to pick up the phone when you call. He should be able to explain it to you the best. Also ask him about why a larger sway bar in the front verses the rear while you have him.

Bill
do I know you from facebook? is that where you got my name from? lolol

Yes, I was just talking to you earlier this morning on FB about the front swaybar being larger than the rear swaybar. I think I also sent you some extra brake line clamps I had from TopLine a while back.
yes you did! they work awesome; thanks! Our super is up on jackstands now & when I heard that their redesign of the front sway bar was an improvement I was immediately interested. I have to wait until 12pm EST to call Cali tho.....thanks Bill!

Are you talking about their swaybar for lowered supers? I was talking to Jon a while back about the difference between their lowered swaybar and their Caster-Fix swaybar bushings. The Caster-Fix bushings move a stock swaybar forward about a 3/8 of an inch. Their lowered swaybars do the same thing by shortening the arm of the swaybar that attaches to the control arm. Not sure if that has any effect on the binding of the sway bar as it passes through the lower control arm bushing? He didn't mention that.

Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:46 am

Hello guys--

I too have a '74 Super and called Jon at Topline about this very subject. The early suspension Super front sway bar has a bend to it at the end out of the flat plane so its easy to see what would need to be changed on a lowered car, but the stock '73.5+ factory sway bar is completely flat when laid on the ground and so is the Topline sway bar. I could not figure out what could be different on a lowered car Topline bar until I called Jon. It's simply the amount of caster the bar provides. That is, the arms are slightly shorter, which pulls the control arms slightly more forward.

It makes total sense if you look at that big sway bar offered jointly by CSP/Kerscher in Germany. They have little bushings that slide over the pin on either end of the sway bar to dictate the amount of caster.

P.S. I didn't totally answer your question as asked, but it has to do with caster.

P.P.S. well, I guess I should read through the entire thread before posting. Beetlenut said the same thing as I did, only earlier.

Hope this helps, and makes sense.
H2OSB

Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:54 am

beetlenut wrote: Junkyardjockey wrote: beetlenut wrote: Junkyardjockey wrote: beetlenut wrote: Hi Ken,

Over here now looking for info I see. I'd just call Jon at TopLine and ask him your question directly. He's great to deal with, and will be the one most likely to pick up the phone when you call. He should be able to explain it to you the best. Also ask him about why a larger sway bar in the front verses the rear while you have him.

Bill
do I know you from facebook? is that where you got my name from? lolol

Yes, I was just talking to you earlier this morning on FB about the front swaybar being larger than the rear swaybar. I think I also sent you some extra brake line clamps I had from TopLine a while back.
yes you did! they work awesome; thanks! Our super is up on jackstands now & when I heard that their redesign of the front sway bar was an improvement I was immediately interested. I have to wait until 12pm EST to call Cali tho.....thanks Bill!

Are you talking about their swaybar for lowered supers? I was talking to Jon a while back about the difference between their lowered swaybar and their Caster-Fix swaybar bushings. The Caster-Fix bushings move a stock swaybar forward about a 3/8 of an inch. Their lowered swaybars do the same thing by shortening the arm of the swaybar that attaches to the control arm. Not sure if that has any effect on the binding of the sway bar as it passes through the lower control arm bushing? He didn't mention that.
I am referring to stock height front sway bars sir. Our super is not lowered enough to make that much of a difference with the sport + topline springs

Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:02 am

H2OSB wrote: Hello guys--

I too have a '74 Super and called Jon at Topline about this very subject. The early suspension Super front sway bar has a bend to it at the end out of the flat plane so its easy to see what would need to be changed on a lowered car, but the stock '73.5+ factory sway bar is completely flat when laid on the ground and so is the Topline sway bar. I could not figure out what could be different on a lowered car Topline bar until I called Jon. It's simply the amount of caster the bar provides. That is, the arms are slightly shorter, which pulls the control arms slightly more forward.

It makes total sense if you look at that big sway bar offered jointly by CSP/Kerscher in Germany. They have little bushings that slide over the pin on either end of the sway bar to dictate the amount of caster.

P.S. I didn't totally answer your question as asked, but it has to do with caster.

P.P.S. well, I guess I should read through the entire thread before posting. Beetlenut said the same thing as I did, only earlier.

Hope this helps, and makes sense.
H2OSB
p.s. I do have their caster fix bushings on my stock sway bar; will it still help to get the bigger front bar; I also have their sport + springs.Will I still see some benefit from their swaybar? Thanks again!

Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:02 am

If you change out the front to 7/8 the rear should also be change to 7/8 to match. Talk to Jon about that also.

Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:03 am

I understand. It's still the same, however. It has to do with the arc the end of the sway bar travels through as the suspension deflects. At a point in the arc the bar is horizontal which is the the point at which the control arm is pushed furthest back. If the suspension goes deeper, the bar starts pulling the control arm more forward. This is exacerbated on a lowered car where the sway bar sits closer to horizontal all the time. What Jon has figured out is a better arc for the sway bar(i.e. shorter length for the sway bar arm).

H2OSB

Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:06 am

Michael Ambrozik wrote: If you change out the front to 7/8 the rear should also be change to 7/8 to match. Talk to Jon about that also.

The largest rear he sells is 3/4 inch(19mm). Stock super is 3/4 front, no rear. The rear sway controls what the front does and vise versa. If you go any bigger on the rear, you'll have snap oversteer(unless you go even bigger on the front). You don't want that.

H2OSB

Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:32 am

H2OSB wrote: Michael Ambrozik wrote: If you change out the front to 7/8 the rear should also be change to 7/8 to match. Talk to Jon about that also.

The largest rear he sells is 3/4 inch(19mm). Stock super is 3/4 front, no rear. The rear sway controls what the front does and vise versa. If you go any bigger on the rear, you'll have snap oversteer(unless you go even bigger on the front). You don't want that.

H2OSB
I'm running 7/8 front, 3/4 rear per Jon's suggestions. You just don't want the rear any bigger than the front.

Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:48 am

is topline's 7/8" front sway bar for stock height supers available anymore?? Who else sells the front 7/8" sway bar? Thanks!

Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:47 am

I think Aircooled.net has them? They don't always stock everything listed, so I would call or email first before ordering.

https://vwparts.aircooled.net/HD-Front-7-8-Swaybar...-12-bl.htm

I run one on my 3-bolt front end 73 super with the Empi 3/4 rear bar. The car is very grippy without feeling unbalanced- really good all around setup with KYB Excel-G rear shocks and adjustable struts up front on Sport springs with who-knows (Empi) strut cartridges up front.

Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:31 am

This gets a little in the weeds, but I had the big Topline bars 7/8th inch F/ 3/4th inch R on my '73 with 125# springs in the front and Porsche 944 torsion bars. The car handled so well it was truely amazing. On my current '74, I plan to run the factory 3/4th inch front bar with a 14mm rear bar from a Porsche 944. The springs will be 125# front with 26mm torsion bars(the 944 bars I had in my '73 were 23.5mm).

I hesitate to mess with a formula that made my other car handle so well, however, I discovered while autocrossing the car would lift the inside front tire 4 or 5 inches off the ground in a tight turn. This wouldn't effect most, but I'm going to play with some settings to see if I can keep that tire on the ground.

H20SB

Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:53 pm

A bit softer like that actually might be a bit better on uneven roads or dirt, honestly. From some I've talked to stiffer bars all around can be a handful in mud/gravel/dirt even if they are great on the street. Lot's of folks I talked to that rally/offroad supers actually don't run a rear bar at all, or use one like you said that's on the softer side.

Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:52 pm

That's my hope. I definitely want to control body roll, but was hoping to reduce the amount. I know if I have no rear bar at all, it will understeer. Quite honestly, the Topline formula was nearly perfect. I raced in monsoon like conditions at one event, and neither my son nor I were able to break the rear end loose until we started being stupid, trying to spin the car.

That said, I have a set of Topline bars waiting in the wings in case I hate it. I cannot recommend the Topline set up enough. Even on my periodic extreme use days, the Topline f/r COMBO is perfect 99.999% of the time.

But...we've gotten far afield of the OP. Hope he got his answer(s) a long time back.

H20SB

Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:33 pm

I've no technical information to further advance this topic; I'm only here to say that I went with Topline's 7/8" sway bar and rear sway bar and I've since been so impressed with the way my '74 SBSB handles.

Does anybody know if Topline will restock the stock height sway bars? Not that I need another set, but I often refer people to vendors who sell specific VW parts.

Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:58 am

They will. Sway bars and Maxx struts are their top sellers. If Jon is out of stock, he'll have more very soon. You can always call. He LOVES to talk VWs on the phone. He almost always is the one to answer the phone.

H2OSB