TheSamba.com :: View topic - What engine to build utilising twin weber 40idf's?

Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:47 pm

I have Web cams in stock, But sadly I´m low on cam gears. Should get new in a week or so.

Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:06 pm

Do not get the Engle 110, and the Web 110 confused. Very different cams! One is boring and uneventful, and the Web 110 is a really good grind that can make some power.

The advertised 280deg also doesn't mean all cams with 280degs will act similar. It is a huge complicated subject that will take many years to kinda understand.

Brian

Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:13 am

Brian_e wrote: Do not get the Engle 110, and the Web 110 confused. Very different cams! One is boring and uneventful, and the Web 110 is a really good grind that can make some power.

The advertised 280deg also doesn't mean all cams with 280degs will act similar. It is a huge complicated subject that will take many years to kinda understand.

Brian

Hi Brian,
You're not wrong there sir. I have only been reading about non stock camshafts in the last few days, and I feel like I'm trying to learn a different language.

I have noted that the Engle and the Web Cam are different, same 110 but thats where it ends. Im liking what I hear about the Web Cam stuff. I found aircooled.net have a lot of info on all there parts, which is useful.
The JMP stuff is lovely, and if you Youtube their cars, like the 1776cc at Santa Pod you'll see what they can do, awesome. Interesting that their cam has a 106 lobe not the 108 and why they do it.
Cheers Phil

Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:38 am

Alstrup wrote: I have Web cams in stock, But sadly I´m low on cam gears. Should get new in a week or so.

I've pm'd you.

The number you quote of 106 ILC is that the lobe size you are on about?

Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:42 am

So, tidying the garage today I’ve found an engine, as you do :lol:
It’s a Type 4 W case, should I do something with this instead, and if so what? Can I use the 40idf’s?
It’s a short engine, no carbs, tinware ....... just a complete block that turns with no end play.
No idea when I got that or where :lol:

Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:23 am

That (if it's stock) is an early 1700 411 engine and is a very desirable one with higher compression pistons that are very hard to find now! Check it out because it could very well be in good condition as is. They also did not have the head cracking issues the later Bus engines did. They made good power and lasted a long time.

I would not hesitate to use your Webers on that one. It should make for a very sweet running engine.

No! Never mind, ignore everything I said and ship it to me - immediately! :D

Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:49 am

oprn wrote: That (if it's stock) is an early 1700 411 engine and is a very desirable one with higher compression pistons that are very hard to find now! Check it out because it could very well be in good condition as is. They also did not have the head cracking issues the later Bus engines did. They made good power and lasted a long time.

I would not hesitate to use your Webers on that one. It should make for a very sweet running engine.

No! Never mind, ignore everything I said and ship it to me - immediately! :D

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
So possibly use this instead. It would be for a 1303 SB. So would it be something you would look to enlarge the cc? Anything else?
Cheers for your reply by the way.

Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:50 am

For a Canadian you’re up early by the way, and it’s Sunday!

Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:45 am

offtherailz1 wrote:

The number you quote of 106 ILC is that the lobe size you are on about?
No, 108 lobe center, adsvanced 2 degrees.

The type 4 as such is a great option in a 1303, but it would set you back quite a bit if you are going to build anything decent. And even a W 1700 in stock form is just too boring, and relatively too expensive to convert.
If that´s the way 2056 is the way to go IMHO.

Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:13 pm

Alsrup, are you forgetting that those engines in stock form were 85 HP and pushed the bigger heavier 411 to 160 km/h? With a set of Webers and good tune you could add anther 10 hp. What's boring about that?

The conversion is expensive only if you want it to be. Talk to nextgen here on this forum about that and what he thinks about the power. The OP has the engine too so no cash outlay there, he's already way ahead on cost.

Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:00 pm

oprn wrote: Alsrup, are you forgetting that those engines in stock form were 85 HP and pushed the bigger heavier 411 to 160 km/h? With a set of Webers and good tune you could add anther 10 hp. What's boring about that?

The conversion is expensive only if you want it to be. Talk to nextgen here on this forum about that and what he thinks about the power. The OP has the engine too so no cash outlay there, he's already way ahead on cost.
Ahh, not quite correct. The W´s were 80 hp and with a good sized exhaust for the engine and a set of dual carbs they were/are typically pulling 86-87 hp.
The AN (412S AN code engine were 85 hp) In a similar set up they typically pulled a little over 90 hp.
If you can fabricate a good deal yourself the Nextgen solution saves a good deal on the bills, but still, a 1700 is not worth the conversion unless you aim to put a lot of miles on the car and engine and don´t really care how much power its making as long as it runs nice.

Back in those days I had some 412´s myself. Both W and AN coded. The 1,7 was nice as such, but juuust did´nt have the punch at the end of the day. The 1,8 was much nicer overall. Then a 914 2 liter with bumped CR (9-1) found its way into the last one along with an FF transmission. TOTALLY DIFFERENT ANIMAL. Many years later I built a 71 x 90,5 1,8 l. engine that originally was goiung to be turbocharged, but that never happened. That engine now resides in a type 3 squareback somewhere (if the car isnt rusted out by now. This is something like 15 years ago) The "long stroke" 1,8 had some of the same characteristics as a 2 liter, but naturally not as powerfull. That engine was sadly never dynoed, but my guess is around 100 hp. It suited the type 3 nice.

Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:25 pm

So the W sounds like a good strong motor with around 85bhp. My thinking is that to get around 125bhp+ would take some serious money. I think the W can wait for another day and a lottery win. But never say never.

I think for now, and having pm’d Torben, I’ll collect some parts for, at the mo, a 1914. At the start of my post I did say I would just like to utilise what I already have and add parts to that list to eventually build an engine.

I have two stock1303’s, the parts I want to use and another spare 1600 engine. While I’m collecting parts, I’ll put the Super Comp and the Weber’s on the spare engine, match port the inlets to the heads and as I’ll get some anyway add some 1.25:1 ratio rockers. It’ll give me little project, and in 35years of Beetle ownership, something else to learn.