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Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:01 pm

We all know where this is going, who makes the better panel? Too many to choose from, too many places to get em. I have struggled tremendously on deciding what to buy and where, I hope this may help some out. I will cover a few manufactures, including Autocraft, Klassicfab and Wolfsburg West. In by breaking down material thickness, quality of stampings, fitment we should discover who, truly does, make the best panels. I welcome any additions to this thread.

This is my order of Klassicfab metal, the funky green. Regarded by many as the finest in aftermarket panels. Does this hold true in the context of our Bay windows, I think not.

This is an assortment of parts, some NOS VW, some Wolfsburg West and mostly Autocraft (as represented by the black and uncoated steel). Also acclaimed by the community as high quality, I feel AC (Autocraft) stands above KF (Klassicfab) in nearly all departments. Lets see why.

I want to start with the RH battery tray, from the start we see the AC panel has considerably crisper edges. The KF panel fits poorly in the rear corner of the bus, whereas the AC panel is a near perfect fit.

The battery tie down of the AC panel has a "VAG" style weld-nut, matching the OEM appearance. Whereas the KF panel has a threaded plate mig welded on. It can be argued the MIG welded "nut" has greater strength; however, the penetration of the welds is poor.

The battery clamp of the KF is thinner and far more crude in finish compared to the AC clamp. I want to note, the notch cut just outboard of the tray was done with a cutting wheel on the KF but machine cut on the AC tray. Interestingly, the AC panel measured at 0.8mm while the KF panel measured at 1mm. If you want purely thick metal, the KF should be your panel, but if you want a better looking, better fitting panel the AC is the choice.

Looking at the infamous inner rocker panel we see a lot of subtle differences.

The definition of the KF panel is far sharper, but overall attention to detail is less. When we compare this dipped section we see the KF panel has very abrupt corners with obvious hand tool marks such as chisel dents. The AC panel has been entirely machine formed, with no hand tool marks. The AC profile matches the NOS sliding door track I have, the KF panels dip is 1/2'' off and has overall poor fit in the bus.

The KF rocker has six less spot welds on the lower plate than the AC rocker. The drain holes on the KF rocker was deeper but again display a lot of hand tool marks.

Here is the most significant difference between the rockers, the aft end of the AC panel has a triangular profile, this correlates better with the profile of the inner wheel well. Both rockers measured at 1mm thickness.

These are outriggers, the left side is produced by Wolfsburg West, the right is AC. Both measure at 1mm, the WW outrigger has very tight bend radius and has a very industrial feel (think electrical junction boxes or HVAC materials). The AC outrigger has pressing marks down the sides. They seem dimensional accurate and are both outstanding panels.

Not pictured are the cargo floor panels I got from WW. These panels are exceedingly beautiful and measured at 1mm (same as OEM). You will not find a better floor, the corrugations are exact and the pressing quality if unmatched across all the panels I have seen.

Last, I want to cover suppliers and shipping. Seen above is a lower portion of the long side panel. It arrived from Colombia roughly in the shape of banana, I complained and received another panel that was also a banana. KF packages their panels with no protection apart from the cardboard. KF has a poor selection of Bay window panels.

None of the panels I received from CIP1 had damage and all parts where individually wrapped in bubble wrap. It is wasteful of plastic, but does save the panels from harm. CIP1 has te best selection of AC panels in the USA.

The order I received form Wolfsburg West was also individually wrapped and none were damaged. WW sells their own products, AC products and Klokkerholm (not worth even mentioning, but that Klokkerholm is garbage).

In conclusion, buy as much Autocraft as possible, followed by Wolfsburg West and then Klassicfab for your Bay window project. I would like to hear any feedback or personal stories on panels, feel free to add em here!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:27 pm

merlinsbus wrote: I would like to hear any feedback or personal stories on panels, feel free to add em here!

they all suck and need a shit ton of work to fit properly. that said, they all are lightyears ahead of what was offered in the past. klokkertrash will always be a letdown. may as well burn money for heat before wasting it on that trash

gersons panels have been good, but the last bay windshield area i used was out to lunch. previous ones were 99%. the last one i used was like 70%. that was a few years ago and i can only assume his die was just worn out.

i did use some autocraft on a split. it was ok, but still needed work. best you can do is jig everything up and put a few tacks in to check for final fitment.

Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:25 am

Dont forget Alanhschofield.com. This British company stamps out many of their own parts and they are an excellent fit and finish

Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:24 am

Wish I had known this before spending $600 on Klokkerholm panels. This dogleg is complete shit. And to now get an Alanschofield or Autocraft shipped from overseas, would be another $4-500 for just this one piece.

Gonna have to make this one work. Have had to bend, jack, hammer, and twist from one end to the other to get the profile even close to where it should be when door is closed ( with a seal of course).

Look at how bad the profile is on this replacement piece. Not even close to original shape. Gonna have to hammer and fill a bunch. Just know its gonna look like shit when im done.

My only saving grace is that this bus has turned into my bodywork learning bus. Wont make these mistakes the next time.

Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:50 am

skills@eurocarsplus wrote: merlinsbus wrote: I would like to hear any feedback or personal stories on panels, feel free to add em here!

they all suck and need a shit ton of work to fit properly. that said, they all are lightyears ahead of what was offered in the past. klokkertrash will always be a letdown. may as well burn money for heat before wasting it on that trash

gersons panels have been good, but the last bay windshield area i used was out to lunch. previous ones were 99%. the last one i used was like 70%. that was a few years ago and i can only assume his die was just worn out.

i did use some autocraft on a split. it was ok, but still needed work. best you can do is jig everything up and put a few tacks in to check for final fitment.

I agree with you. There were very few decent panels available in the 90’s. It’s way better now. Klomkerholm is the worst. Beyond that it’s a toss up depending on the specific part. Every part I have ever fit has required tweaking. I think that’s just the nature of panel replacement.

I bet the factory panels didn’t fit together like legos when these were built. I bet there was some tweaking as it went together.

Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:20 pm

skills@eurocarsplus wrote: gersons panels have been good, but the last bay windshield area i used was out to lunch. previous ones were 99%. the last one i used was like 70%. that was a few years ago and i can only assume his die was just worn out.

All three times I used the Gerson windshield repair piece I had to cut it in half and add 1/8" to 1/4" metal to make it fit. The window ledge isn't as deep and doesn't have the correct profile either. I just repaired the windshield sill on my '74 and I only used what was needed from the Gerson piece which wasn't much...

Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:45 am

Great post, thanks Merlinsbus! I can't vouch for fit within the bus yet, but the Preservation Parts from JustKampers are solid quality as well. Forming and fit/finish of the replacement pieces themselves are excellent, and gauge seems pretty close to OEM. Plus Bus Depot carries a bunch of their stuff.

It's true that availability of panels is better than ever. I dragged my feet on my project for the last 6 years, and now you can get repop belly pans and just about anything else that used to be donor bus-only.

Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:25 am

yugo42 wrote: Great post, thanks Merlinsbus! I can't vouch for fit within the bus yet, but the Preservation Parts from JustKampers are solid quality as well. Forming and fit/finish of the replacement pieces themselves are excellent, and gauge seems pretty close to OEM. Plus Bus Depot carries a bunch of their stuff.

It's true that availability of panels is better than ever. I dragged my feet on my project for the last 6 years, and now you can get repop belly pans and just about anything else that used to be donor bus-only.

The Preservation panels I have used all seem pretty solid and of good quality. I've been happy with them.

Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:48 am

Merlin-I gotta commend you on spending what I can only imagine to be a pretty penny to get multiples of parts simply to compare the quality!

I'm still a long ways away from being able to do any restoration on my Buses, but it is very good to read that there are beginning to be more and better metal parts becoming available. That was something I had worried about.

Thanks for sharing!

Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:44 am

Just to add to this discussion...I wound up with a Klokkerholm inner rocker due to a mix-up, and before sending it back for a refund I had a chance to compare it to the JustKampers Preservation Parts UK-made piece I had for the other side of the bus.

Right off the bat, you can see pretty clearly that there is a major length discrepancy.

The JK panel has the end flange, not so on the Klokky.

The flange that goes against the floor on the JK part has a section with a lower height to match the cargo floor stamping. The Klok would have to be modified to work. JK also has the drain channels formed in.

Big difference in metal thickness. In your hands it almost feels more extreme, but the mic doesn't lie. (If you want to ding me for not removing the paint first for accuracy, remember I have to return the Klokkerholm!)

Lastly, the form of the curved section near the front is clearly more accurate on the JK Preservation part.

Interestingly, I got a Klokkerholm rear jacking point on the same order and it looks like the correct metal gauge and has all the formed features I would expect. I don't have a pic but that piece seems equal to the JK part in quality.

Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:52 am

Funny I did the exact same repair a few years ago with the same exact parts and had the same thoughts. Bottom line is get the better Preservation parts if you can.

Interestingly this year I'm tearing out the Klokkerholm inner rocker I installed because it's already dissolving. The Preservation panel on the other side is fine.

Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:56 am

I'm looking for a front nose panel for my 78. Looks like KlassicFab only has the early bay version, same with Schofield.
I'm considering a JustKampers part
https://www.justkampers.com/us/vw-bus-parts-1968-1...n-bay.html

Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:35 am

I used a Klokkerholm rear fender patch on one side of my bus, and a JK on the other.

The Klokker took three times as much work to fit, and still looks wavy and awful because the metal was so thin, that it warped just from tacking it in.

The JK I didn't even have to fill, just sanded the welds smooth and painted it. Looks great years later.

I'd like to rip the Klokker out at some point and put some better metal in there, because I hate filler. But I could definitely smooth it out with some filler and call it a day.

It all depends on how much money you want to spend, versus how much time you want to waste.