TheSamba.com :: View topic - Kennedy Stage II Clutch

Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:32 pm

Ive got a 89 syncro with a 97svx swap. (RMW adapter and flywheel) currently running a stage 1 clutch which is starting to chatter and slip, so I'm trying to figure out what im putting in next.

I spoke to Small Car's (who originally did the engine swap) and their stage II clutch only works with their bell housing which I no longer have (the previous owner had RMW reconvert to their adapter)

RMW does not offer a stage II, so I spoke with Kennedy about their stage II pressure plate and disk, which i believe will work with the RMW flywheel(?)

Ive read through a number of clutch forums here and seems like a lot of folk are unhappy with the stiffness of the Kennedy stage II clutch.

Any folks with experience on stage I vs stage II have any input?
Is the KEP Stage II really that stiff?
Hopefully this will help other folks considering this option as well.

Given that the Stage 1 is rated to ~180hp and the stage II ~400hp seems like the SII would logically be better for the 230HP SVX.

Also not very surprising that the stage I clutch that's in it right now is having problem after about 30k miles.

Thanks for input!

Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:46 am

We have an owner with a heavy clutch from Kennedy. It’s mated to a TDI. Works well, but with stock hydraulics is heavy. It also releases near the floor. That takes some getting used to. It’s likely stage 2, but I don’t recall exactly. The stock clutch was slipping.

Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:24 am

Hi Will.....
Yikes be careful putting that much power thru your trans.

Probably should drive pretending you need to "preserve a 90HP clutch".
But I have the stage 2 clutch, because the stage I seemed inadequate.
I don't know why, maybe it was glazed or defective in some way.
It just felt like it was "just about to start slipping at any moment, barely able to push the van along in 4th gear.
So I bought Smallcar's stage 2 pressure plate.
It was some years ago. It's RED.

Be very careful with clutch chatter. (don't do it!)
First of all the chatter itself is very detrimental to the little 90hp transaxle.
And it's detriment gets worse and worse if your trans is 'old' or 'loose' (or not maintained for heavy duty-cycle).
My clutch chattered for a very short period when I first put the Stage 2 pressure-plate on my (lightly) used disc,
but I healed the chatter quickly using advanced methods and "became happy".

But that used disc failed in 2018. ( the disc was circa 2009 ).
Possibly the chatter broke the springs on my clutch disc.
Or, the broken springs may have been the cause of the chatter (that I healed).
The broken spring coils fell out of the disc and gummed up the works 1,000 miles from home.
It's possible that a little piece of a spring came out (years ago) causing the slipping in my stage1) that made me change to the Stage2.

Anyway in 2018 it culminated in some Samba-driveway-camping.
Where my passengers (the fam) rented a Toyota to drove by periodically and see if I was still thrashing about under the van.
Clutch problem at Morro Bay -anyone help?
I did not leave any spots on this generous Samba member's pristine driveway.

A couple years ago I modified my clutch pedal pivot.
The goal was to prevent the over-extension of the Golf master cylinder and to smooth out the clutch modulation.
It's a mod similar to the "fred mod" but just I drilled a 2nd hole closer to the pedal pivot to reduce the volume of fluid output,
to "match" the Golf slave that Smallcar uses.
The clutch now feels soft and butter-smooth,
I think its a total success.

===========
Sorry this (below) will be way confusing unless you deep dive into the Smallcar bellhousing clutch problem.
And you'd need to get another Smallcar bellhousing to participate.
===========
See this post about the pedal pivot: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options.
There is some confusion WRT 9mm/11mm/13mm because there's nobody else posting/testing about this.
And test results would be difficult to compare, unless someone can provide the the volume of fluid that a VW golf master outputs.
If we had the cc's of fluid that the Golf slave outputs,
a pivot distance on the Vanagon clutch pedal can be chosen to exactly equal the fluid volume that the Golf slave is designed for.
Of course this is the info that Smallcar needs to delete their hokey spacer solution of 2010, and delete the abrupt modulation problem too, but here we are.
Smallcar could redeem their bellhousing with this simple task, but then they'd have to drill clutch pivots too (and admit).
So most Subaru installers have just gone to the RJES bellhousing.

Anyway with no better info than Fred & Dave had....I used "13mm" and the clutch is soft
so I'd be inclined to use less offset if I did it again, perhaps 11mm.
I had one guy tell me that he did 11mm and something didn't work right, but this guy was a total newby mechanic,
so I don't know what to say about his evaluation of "11mm".
I think 11mm vs 13mm would be a very subtle difference.
And a newby mechanic capable of altering a clutch pivot, is an anomaly.
To be a newby and muck around at that level suggests a very very capable person, a 'budding natural mechanic'.👍🏽👍🏽
A Vanagon can shepherd this kind of person into a real mechanic in short order!!
(and he had a Syncro too! I think Vancouver, WA...)
Its inevitable. I bet he's under the van right now. :lol:

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:38 pm

I have a stage II installed with my FAS diesel engine and re-geared trans. It took a little getting used to but now I don't notice it to be stiff at all.

Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:50 pm

Same here, stage 2 with my fas tdi. To be honest in dont think i really noticed a difference in terms of the feel. Its not a fun killer by any means.

Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:50 pm

Thanks for the responses!
I generally drive like a grandma, Im not looking to be ripping burnouts in the parking lot or even towing anything. Extra wear and tear on the transmission is something I am very conscious about, having driven my 2.5L subaru turbo swap for the last 3 years with no drivetrain problems.
I change the gear oil religiously.

The trans on the syncro was rebuilt about 30k ago with some taller gears and other goodies, hopefully Im good there for a while longer.

I spoke with Greg at mr. gas rebuilds (trans rebuilder in CO) and he had nothing but good things to say about stage II clutches.

so,
I placed an order for a Kennedy Stage II Pressure Plate and their racing disk, hopefully it will last longer than what's in there.

This might be a stupid question, but Ive only ever pulled the trans/engine assembly together. Do the engine carrier bolts have to be loosened in a Syncro to get the trans to drop low enough to get it out? Or is there enough room with the engine still hard mounted? Seems like its a pretty tight fit up against the fuel tank. Im going be doing this in a friends driveway with just some jack stands and a floor jack.

Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:00 am

I removed the trans leaving the engine in-place (EJ25 Syncro).
A Syncro engine is 1 inch lower than the 2WD engine.

Loosening the engine carrier bolts allows the engine to tip forward a little so the trans can slide out forward.
I had to remove the intake elbow to let the engine tip forward.
I put a 2x4 across the opening, with a ratchet strap holding the forward engine weight, that I could 'let down' to support the engine.

For my clutch debacle 1,000 mules from home, my Samba driveway savior had this adjustable engine support truss which made it super easy.
It was from Harbor Freight, $80.

I think the SVX is tighter in the throttle body area.
And your exhaust area might be more "cramped", not allowing the rear to 'tip up'.

Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:27 am

Sodo wrote:
I put a 2x4 across the opening, with a ratchet strap holding the forward engine weight, that I could 'let down' to support the engine.

nothing to add to the main discussion, but will 2x that having one of those support bars around the shop is really handy.
for timing belts on fwd cars, for trans pulls on vans, etc etc

https://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-engine-support-bar-96524.html