TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:16 am

Am I crazy….? I’ve been dreaming of a Vanagon for years but never pulled the trigger….I’m now seriously considering one that just popped up for sale on Facebook Marketplace….AND considering I’d have to sell my 2020 Toyota Tundra to get it, I’ll ask again….Am I crazy?

A unicorn 1991 Westfalia Syncro is listed for sale in my local area (2.5-liter Subaru swap). Vanagons, let alone Syncros, don’t pop up very often (Alaska). It seems like a good price at $39,500 but does have rust in multiple areas…which I would definitely get checked out prior to.

Here is a link with tons of close up pictures and details about the van when it was sold in Canada last year. The Alaskan owner that purchased it only drove it 3 times. They state they are selling because they don’t have time to use it any longer due to job changes.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-volkswagen-vanagon-westfalia-synchro-3/

Some more details:

- 553k Kilometers (344k miles) on the body
- 2.5L Subaru Flat-Four (50-60k on engine estimate)
- Rebuilt 4-Speed Manual Transaxle
- Syncro All-Wheel-Drive
- Repainted in Pale Green
- 16" Audi Wheels
- 2" Lift Kit
- Propex Heater

Most importantly, is the rust too much of a concern?

Thanks for your input!

Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:23 am

That one sat on the samba for a few months unsold in the classifieds in here before selling on BringATrailer for just under 31k in 8/2020, here is the article maybe has some details. I'd question what have they done that makes it wort +8k.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-volkswagen-vanagon-westfalia-synchro-3/

Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:19 am

When you drove that truck off the dealers lot you already took a huge financial loss.
To sell it now just cuts off any chance you have of at least gaining some tangible value back through use.

Then to replace it with a 30 year old over priced antique and expect the same level of dependability?

Ain't gonna happen.

So.... yes .... Yes you are.

Dave

Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:04 am

but sleeping in the Tundra isn't as comfortable

and certainly isn't any good for making coffee and eggs in the morning.

really it's not about $$.. too much as it's what are you going to do with your time on the rock..
someday never exists
and tomorrow is always a day away.

if the syncro is going to sit in your garage except the occasional trip, then yeah it's foolish.. if it's going to become part of your life experience and identity as a daily extension of your ID.. then nope..

but while rare in your parts, they are out there and as mentioned $8k over last sold value, you can have one shipped.. or hell I'll drive one to Alaska for you just cover my expenses ;-)

Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:24 am

Yup, I'd say you are crazy.
You have Syncro lust, but are looking at a well used, and to me neglected example.

The body work on that unit is poorly done, and the seam rust coming back is telling you there is a nigh mare underneath.

40K!! For that money I expect much cleaner, the tent should be replaced, the door cards show where the power mirror switches have been removed, looks like the truck mirrors are missing screws at the top, I'd like matching bumpers, table dinged,....every picture shows well used components.
Toyota Tundra, what a machine...
Is the Tundra paid off? Easy to finance a newer car, unlikely the bank will finance an old VW.
So what if it is local, find a better Synco if you really want one, fly in and drive it home, or have it delivered.
I'd rather pay more for a pristine unit, that one that looks like it will be a parts donor in a few years.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:41 am

For camping buy a used 5k camper trailer and tow it with the Tantric Toy.

Selling a 2020 is for those of us bitching about paying taxes on our forced 401k withdrawals.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:33 am

It's funny, I've been a vw driver (loyalist) for 25+ yrs. an exception though has been 3 domestic work trucks. My Syncro has been the only vehicle that has made me think/lust for a toyota, particularly a 2004 4dr tacoma...with a 2.0 BHW PD tdi swap!

Syncros are great in many ways. They are appreciating fast and have stepped beyond a price point for many with exception to die hard enthusiast/hobbyist. Truth be; get one when you can but don't give up on the Toyota.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:56 am

Yes, it would certainly be nuts to sell your truck for the syncro. However, the used car market is particularly hot right now and so I doubt your depreciation hit on the Tundra would be that significant. You will get a very cool old camper with a wonderful layout, but also the issues with old cars and parts wearing out. When I bought mine in 1995, I learned quickly to always travel with tools and be prepared for anything. That said, my experience has been very positive and I love my Westy.

If it were my choice to make, I would probably be looking at a modern camper van. Or, as was suggested, get something to tow behind your very reliable modern truck.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:16 am

Yes it would be nuts. My 2002 Toyota Tacoma (bought new)has 200000 miles on it and has never needed anything other than schedule maintenance (oil changes,tuneup’s’brake’s and exsust). My 82 vanagon bought in 88 has 270000 miles on it. It been restored once three engine’s and three transmission’s in that time. I love the van. I think about it and what I am going to do to it next. I got married in it. I have been to a lot of air shows and music festivals in it. The van is a big part of my life. The Toyota is transportation. It just depends on witch experience you are looking for. A syncro in Alaska with some rust on it is just going to cost a lot more per mile to drive and a lot more down time. John

Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:18 am

For that coin there are way cleaner syncros. There will still be things that break and make you work on the van so the toyota will be more dependable. You know there's a riviera vanagon in anchorage for 4500 that needs an engine. Drop a suby in it and a peloquin in the trans and it would be a good van. Granted not a syncro but you could still have some good times in it. Probably even make a buck if you wanted to sell it.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:26 am

It is too much money.. and, I don't think "original tent" is a selling point. Lends itself in that one small detail that is obvious, that indeed you'd be finding all kind of things that have not been done.

Oh, and I have a Tundra, I love it. For what it is, and that is all. It makes cleaning the drive a pleasure. It takes rotty junk to the landfill without complaint, and I don't mind it getting a little stain from something I haul..

Last, is your Tundra a daily drive, and is it your only vehicle? You'd need at least one other vehicle, if you own and attempt to daily drive that Syncro.

Do I want a Syncro too? Sure. But my mania has been contained to only multiple T3's and a few last Air Cooled ones. If I inherited one, I'd keep it. If I were buying one, I'd be looking at cost, work to come, and to sell at some point in the future. All the while, if I drove it, I would be in constant fear of getting hit, or deer, elk, moose ruining all ov that and then fight with an insurance company for a couple years.. Not my cup of tea.

-bobby

Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:52 am

The rust is a huge concern! The rear spring perches were replaced because they had rusted off; how many holes do you think there are under all the window rubbers? I think the body will cost you $25,000 to fix properly. Or you could just drive it into the ground.

The previous owner's attention to detail is revealed in the many, many repetitions of the same photos.

And Vivid filled the transaxle with Redline, which isn't suitable for a Subaru powered ring & pinion.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:40 am

A factory new Syncro would be less dependable than a decently maintained thirty year old Toyota truck. For me, it would be really hard to give up a vehicle known for its dependability in trade for one known for its multitude of ways to break.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:13 am

Buy a Syncro PLUS another $10,000 Toyota.
A Toyota can be a very effective Syncro mod/accessory.
It doesn't need to be a 2020 model.
If the Syncro works out for you, you don't add miles to the Toyota which will probably appreciate as well.
And if the Syncro breaks down you have the Toyota and not putting miles on the Syncro.
Better park that Syncro indoors, and heated.

The Redline oil being thin, will be a good flush oil (albeit expensive) but put in a thicker oil before driving it hot.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:45 am

It's crazy, sure, but if you're considering it I think, like me, you're trying to find out "how" crazy.

Selling the Tundy seems like a decent move. They really don't depreciate a lot and if you've got Syncro lust, that appliance of a vehicle, albeit an excellent appliance, won't cut it.

A year ago I sold a totally reliable 2013 VW TDI Wagon with around 40k miles and a warranty for a high mileage Land Rover LR3. I now regularly spend money on repairs and gas mileage is horrible. I like it SO much more than the TDI though. It's worth the BS (most days). It's the character and a Toyota won't cut it. They are really nice and i've tried many times to talk myself into one, but if you like quirky vehicles, it's out. That's just the facts for me.

Now that Syncro looks like a bit of trouble. I personally would not consider just having a vanagon as my only vehicle. I'd do what you can to buy the nicest vanagon you can afford AND another vehicle. This could be a totally boring under 10k car, whatever, but you're going to need it. I've got three cars and they all have problems. I love them though and would not trade them for a new toyota. It's about character and the hobby and if you're considering this, I'd go for it, but be sensible in some fashion. Have a back up plan for the vanagon breaking down and begin preparing to spend money on repairs. you're gonna love it and you're gonna hate it and yes you're crazy, but that's why we're here. It's so fun.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:33 pm

AlaskanAssassin I made a forehead sticker for you

Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:51 pm

I vote that your crazy. Too much rust, not to mention all the other problems you will be overpaying for. I didn't see any 944 axles that went with that lift.
You should consider a FourWheel Camper or All Terrain Camper to go on that Toyota. You might even consider trading the Toyota for a 3/4 or 1 ton and getting a camper with hard sides so you can still spend time in it during those long cold Alaskan winters.

Or you could spend 39K for it, tack on another 8 grand and make a great profit.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:01 pm

Like I have always said to my kids "You only live once, do it while you are young and can enjoy it".

Find a better Syncro, you do not want to play with structural rust.

Just my $0.02 :D

Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:23 pm

djkeev wrote: When you drove that truck off the dealers lot you already took a huge financial loss.

normally yes but Toyotas print their own money.

2 friends just went thru this....

one sold his 2019 tundra with 42k back to the dealer for 5k over sticker. was on the lot next day and sold.

another friend just sold his 2020 super duty back to the dealer. paid 65k for it, they gave him 72k had it on the lot for 77k and sold it

i'd never had believed it until i saw it happen.

anyway...

that van isn't worth the asking price imho. ugly color repaint with bed liner on the lower 6"= real ugly shit hiding under it. hard pass

Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:41 pm

AlaskanAssassin wrote: Am I crazy….? I’ve been dreaming of a Vanagon for years but never pulled the trigger….I’m now seriously considering one that just popped up for sale on Facebook Marketplace….AND considering I’d have to sell my 2020 Toyota Tundra to get it, I’ll ask again….Am I crazy?

absolutely yes. they are completely different vehicles. a 2020 Tundra will start in arctic temps, run reliably for 200k miles, and have heat, comfort, reliability to go to the lower 48 for re-supply.

Syncros are fun, cool, great and all that. waaaaaay farther ahead in life with a new Tundra unless you are a hobbiest and have a primary vehicle, especially in Alaska.