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Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:53 am

Does anyone know if it is possible to buy original hardware for a '67 beetle? I know that there are websites that sell complete hardware kits; however, they are not the original "Kamax" brand.

Perhaps my best bet is to restore the ones that I do have, and then attempt to buy the ones that I am missing.

Is there a list anywhere of all of the hardware for a beetle, so that I am able to mark off what I have and what I am missing? Sadly, aircooled.net does not post a list of what is included in their hardware kits.

Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:41 pm

If you are looking for original headmarked correct fasteners, the only way is to find them used, and have them replated. Gather the bolts that you have, measure them, and list their locations in a wanted ad in the classifieds for the ones you are looking for. Porsche, and Mercedes used the same hardware, so you could post wanted ads in their respective forums with lengths/diameters/pitches. While it is nice to have the original fasteners, unless you are creating a judged show car, you can spend a lot of unnecessary funds on fasteners.

Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:44 pm

Unless you have a very rare car and restoring it to museum level, don't bother trying to use original date coded hardware.

Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:01 pm

I like using the old hardware. They feel so much more substantial if you will. Wrenches and sockets fit them much tighter. For some reason, a lot of the new hardware seems to be a tiny bit smaller, and the corners are not as sharp. Wrenches have slop..

I have a tumbler I have filled with blasting abrasive. I tumble them for a few days, wash, and throw them in the ultrasonic machine, then soak in ATF for awhile.

I know that probably sounds like a ridiculous amount of work just to reuse old hardware, but I think it's worth it.

Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:36 am

All of you made a very good point. I was looking for hardware kits online and they seem to run in the $250 range, so I was thinking that I could buy original hardware from swap meets and then have it zinc coated.

After a little more thought, however, I think that I will just buy a hardware kit online and then maybe (maybe) replace all of the aftermarket hardware with the original kamax brand slowly but surely...after all, I still have quite a lot of work before I have to worry about hardware. :D

Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:27 pm

Very few of the original bolts were zinc plated. Most were black oxide coated, which you can easily do yourself.

Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:43 pm

Pruneman99 wrote: I like using the old hardware. They feel so much more substantial if you will. Wrenches and sockets fit them much tighter. For some reason, a lot of the new hardware seems to be a tiny bit smaller, and the corners are not as sharp. Wrenches have slop..

I have a tumbler I have filled with blasting abrasive. I tumble them for a few days, wash, and throw them in the ultrasonic machine, then soak in ATF for awhile.

I know that probably sounds like a ridiculous amount of work just to reuse old hardware, but I think it's worth it.

I'm with you on this.

Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:30 am

tasb wrote: Pruneman99 wrote: I like using the old hardware. They feel so much more substantial if you will. Wrenches and sockets fit them much tighter. For some reason, a lot of the new hardware seems to be a tiny bit smaller, and the corners are not as sharp. Wrenches have slop..

I have a tumbler I have filled with blasting abrasive. I tumble them for a few days, wash, and throw them in the ultrasonic machine, then soak in ATF for awhile.

I know that probably sounds like a ridiculous amount of work just to reuse old hardware, but I think it's worth it.

I'm with you on this.

I’m not with you on this, why? Because VW used several different sources for hardware and hardware is not a high precision item. From what I’ve seen most of the OEM stuff is either black oxide or dull silver finish zinc or cad plate, Nothing special.

Ace hardware has a great selection of quality hardware that looks as good as OEM stuff but it’s probably better plating. I’ve also found great quality hardware at Lowe’s, I’ve been using it for years without any problems whatsoever and that includes slippage or wrenches that don’t fit.

Here’s a sample of what we have on hand.

While we are talking hardware any guesses to what this is. Pretty sure nobody is reproducing this😀

Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:48 am

viiking wrote: Very few of the original bolts were zinc plated. Most were black oxide coated, which you can easily do yourself.

My understanding is that if it was exposed to the elements it was zinc plated, otherwise, it was black oxide plated. The fender bolts were silver cadmium plated.

Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:38 pm

harrymarlin wrote: viiking wrote: Very few of the original bolts were zinc plated. Most were black oxide coated, which you can easily do yourself.

My understanding is that if it was exposed to the elements it was zinc plated, otherwise, it was black oxide plated. The fender bolts were silver cadmium plated.

Fender bolts on mine were definitely black oxide. That’s why they rust so easily.

Perhaps aftermarket bolts are silver cadmium but I doubt VW did.

Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:16 pm

Zundfolge1432 wrote:

I’m not with you on this, why?
…Ace hardware…
…Lowe’s…

To each their own…
You couldn’t pay me enough to put hardware store fasteners on an all original bug or bus! :lol:
I have spent many hours digging through jars, boxes, trays, bins, etc. looking for a certain bolt for a certain application.
I know a lot of other guys and gals on here that have done the same…

Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:14 pm

To the OP - FYI, Kamax was not the only original hardware supplier to VW for the '67 model year, or any other years for that matter. There were also other commonly used OEM suppliers such as "N S F", "Verbus", "Karro", "Boesner", "F S" to name a few. You might consider expanding your search for original hardware with these period correct OEM German suppliers, every bit as "valid" as the more sought after Kamax fasteners for your '67!

Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:03 pm

Knipping Rasche Dorn HWE are a few others off the top of my head as well…

Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:02 am

67conv wrote: To the OP - FYI, Kamax was not the only original hardware supplier to VW for the '67 model year, or any other years for that matter. There were also other commonly used OEM suppliers such as "N S F", "Verbus", "Karro", "Boesner", "F S" to name a few. You might consider expanding your search for original hardware with these period correct OEM German suppliers, every bit as "valid" as the more sought after Kamax fasteners for your '67!

House wrote: Knipping Rasche Dorn HWE are a few others off the top of my head as well…

Very interesting! Did VW use specific hardware suppliers for specific parts of the car or was it just mixed all over?

Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:59 pm

House wrote: Zundfolge1432 wrote:

I’m not with you on this, why?
…Ace hardware…
…Lowe’s…

To each their own…
You couldn’t pay me enough to put hardware store fasteners on an all original bug or bus! :lol:
I have spent many hours digging through jars, boxes, trays, bins, etc. looking for a certain bolt for a certain application.
I know a lot of other guys and gals on here that have done the same…

Yes I have no problem with keeping things stock but most of my cars are not original and have many incorrect parts. I used to buy fasteners and other original things from a guy that covered at least 10 states buying core engines and transaxles. Memories of 5 gallon pails full of hardware. Good times.

If you strive to use correct hardware do you also install with the markings facing out? I do and maybe it’s OCD, I’ll wear that jacket😀

Any guesses on the mystery fasteners I showed?

Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:05 pm

House wrote: I have spent many hours digging through jars, boxes, trays, bins, etc. looking for a certain bolt for a certain application.
You did that for yourself. When you eventually sell the vehicle the new owner won't care.

Again unless it's a museum quality restoration and has not been driven since.

For a "driver" it doesn't matter.

Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:42 pm

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
Any guesses on the mystery fasteners I showed?

Still stumped! :)

Glenn wrote: You did that for yourself. When you eventually sell the vehicle the new owner won't care.

Agreed, no worries, I consider it therapy. :lol:

Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:11 am

I just want to point out, as I routinely try to do around these Samba forums, that excellent, top-of-the-line, premium quality industrial hardware is still available. Sometimes I'm not sure if people think all new hardware is crap these days, or if they just don't want to pony up a few extra cents for good hardware.

Yes, if you insist on limiting yourself to the neighborhood hardware stores, then you will exhaust your search for premium products quite quickly. But if you check McMaster-Carr, you'll be amazed to find true, correct, quality-made nuts and bolts in a myriad of finishes that should suit most needs quite well.

You can get metric class 8.8, 10.9, and even the vaunted 12.9 "extreme strength" screws and nuts that meet the same specifications and tolerances as original VW hardware. Sure, you have to buy a bag of 10, or 25 (or in the case of some M8 and M6 stuff, a bag of 50), but it's well worth it as far as I'm concerned.

Admittedly, for things like fender bolts, we can't find the extra tall, blocky heads that the OE stuff had; for example, a Knipping bolt off my 65 fender has a 7.5mm tall head, which is nice to get a socket on when dealing with the confines under a fender well. Unfortunately, the industry standard is more like 5.5mm tall (just under a quarter inch), so that's the one area where the new stuff isn't comparable. But in every other way, premium stuff is still around, the whole industrial mechanized world still needs it.

Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:00 pm

I’ll come to the defense of Ace Hardware, I’ve never been screwed over buying stuff there. Years ago they maintained a series of catalogs whereby you could select from any type including specialty fasteners in different grades. Today it may be even easier since it’s all online.

The snobbish attitude that big box stores hardware isn’t acceptable is naive at best. But I can certainly understand using correctly marked OEM for the purists. The belief that you need a higher grade means what? If you mean stainless then we’ll be having a different discussion here later about dissimilar metal corrosion.

About quality we were lucky enough to have a dedicated fastener store here. It’s all they do, they are local family and stand behind everything. The catch is you buy the fasteners by the pound with a 20 dollar minimum. That’s enough to build 5 or 6 engines and during the good old days we did😀

Look at the marking on head

Looking again at the markings, you also see some new wave washers these are cad plate aircraft quality way better tha OEM. The dull aluminum wave washers are from Lowe’s and are indistinguishable from OEM, no markings at all. Cost one dollar for about 8 of them. It’s Sunday afternoon where you gonna find OEM German hardware. 😀

Not German but damn fine quality http://rulecompany.com/MetricNuts.php

Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:48 am

Zundfolge1432 wrote: It’s Sunday afternoon where you gonna find OEM German hardware. 😀

Just like you said, it's not that the hardware store fasteners are worse quality, especially since most of the fasteners don't need to hold a lot. For me, personally, it is more just a nice addition to have the OEM hardware...I don't plan on ever selling my beetle. I appreciate everyone's valuable input!