TheSamba.com :: View topic - Differences between Brazilian and US classic VW Beetles

Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:53 am

Hi, everyone.

I am a VW lover (I have a Beetle and a Brasilia) and I'm very interested in the VW history and models worldwide. It is always good to learn more and more about it. Since I am from Brazil, I thought it would be a good idea to share details of some models that were only made here. I started producing some content in English to let other people know a bit about our local scenario.

One of the videos talks about the Beetle produced in Brazil until the middle 70s. Many people get confused because this model looks older in other markets.

I plan to so more content like this, especially about other models many people may not know.

Hope this can be useful for you guys.

Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:58 am

Eduardo, I think that just past the mid- to late 60's The cars from Australia and So. East Asia also used the 58-64 body. In 1972 a guy that lived in the same apartment building as me in Hermosa Beach Ca. had a deluxe 1967 Mexican Beetle that was on the old 58-64 Body.
Also, A friend of mine bought a new 67 Beetle in Hamburg Germany and shipped it to L.A. for her to drive to U.C.L.A. That 67 is a deluxe 1300, 6volt system with the old style headlamps/fenders, seen here next to my sea blue 65 1200 "A" Custom.
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20834/images/img_0138_edited_1.jpg

So you not only have differences from the old body types, but after 1966 you have old fenders on new body.
Speaking of old and new. My 65 1200"A" Custom not only has the last 36HP engine, but the last pan to have welded in nubs to snap over the old style mats, but it is the last beetle to have the stud, claw & wingnut to secure the front seats ( NO SEAT tracks) and uses the old style steering column and steering wheels ( the 1200"A" uses the old standard three spoke that goes back to 1938 and the 1200"A" Custom for 1965 uses the old 1956-1959 deluxe steering wheel-see below.
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20834/images/img_0136_edited_1.jpg

Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:16 am

Helfen wrote: Eduardo, I think that just past the mid- to late 60's The cars from Australia and So. East Asia also used the 58-64 body. In 1972 a guy that lived in the same apartment building as me in Hermosa Beach Ca. had a deluxe 1967 Mexican Beetle that was on the old 58-64 Body.
Also, A friend of mine bought a new 67 Beetle in Hamburg Germany and shipped it to L.A. for her to drive to U.C.L.A. That 67 is a deluxe 1300, 6volt system with the old style headlamps/fenders, seen here next to my sea blue 65 1200 "A" Custom.
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20834/images/img_0138_edited_1.jpg

So you not only have differences from the old body types, but after 1966 you have old fenders on new body.
Speaking of old and new. My 65 1200"A" Custom not only has the last 36HP engine, but the last pan to have welded in nubs to snap over the old style mats, but it is the last beetle to have the stud, claw & wingnut to secure the front seats ( NO SEAT tracks) and uses the old style steering column and steering wheels ( the 1200"A" uses the old standard three spoke that goes back to 1938 and the 1200"A" Custom for 1965 uses the old 1956-1959 deluxe steering wheel-see below.
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20834/images/img_0136_edited_1.jpg

Awesome.

It is interesting how the Beetle varies across countries, even for the same year/model. In Brazil we had the 6-volt system until the middle 1966. The 12-volt comes with the bigger window and the 1300cc engine (It was 1200 before 1966).

Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:41 am

Eduardo Sauner wrote: Helfen wrote: Eduardo, I think that just past the mid- to late 60's The cars from Australia and So. East Asia also used the 58-64 body. In 1972 a guy that lived in the same apartment building as me in Hermosa Beach Ca. had a deluxe 1967 Mexican Beetle that was on the old 58-64 Body.
Also, A friend of mine bought a new 67 Beetle in Hamburg Germany and shipped it to L.A. for her to drive to U.C.L.A. That 67 is a deluxe 1300, 6volt system with the old style headlamps/fenders, seen here next to my sea blue 65 1200 "A" Custom.
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20834/images/img_0138_edited_1.jpg

So you not only have differences from the old body types, but after 1966 you have old fenders on new body.
Speaking of old and new. My 65 1200"A" Custom not only has the last 36HP engine, but the last pan to have welded in nubs to snap over the old style mats, but it is the last beetle to have the stud, claw & wingnut to secure the front seats ( NO SEAT tracks) and uses the old style steering column and steering wheels ( the 1200"A" uses the old standard three spoke that goes back to 1938 and the 1200"A" Custom for 1965 uses the old 1956-1959 deluxe steering wheel-see below.
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20834/images/img_0136_edited_1.jpg

Awesome.

It is interesting how the Beetle varies across countries, even for the same year/model. In Brazil we had the 6-volt system until the middle 1966. The 12-volt comes with the bigger window and the 1300cc engine (It was 1200 before 1966).

This will amaze you. The last Beetle made in Germany to have 6 Volts is 1974!
And the Last Beetle ever made in Germany ( January 1978 ) was a 1200, swing axle!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1814329.jpg

Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:51 am

Helfen wrote: Eduardo Sauner wrote: Helfen wrote: Eduardo, I think that just past the mid- to late 60's The cars from Australia and So. East Asia also used the 58-64 body. In 1972 a guy that lived in the same apartment building as me in Hermosa Beach Ca. had a deluxe 1967 Mexican Beetle that was on the old 58-64 Body.
Also, A friend of mine bought a new 67 Beetle in Hamburg Germany and shipped it to L.A. for her to drive to U.C.L.A. That 67 is a deluxe 1300, 6volt system with the old style headlamps/fenders, seen here next to my sea blue 65 1200 "A" Custom.
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20834/images/img_0138_edited_1.jpg

So you not only have differences from the old body types, but after 1966 you have old fenders on new body.
Speaking of old and new. My 65 1200"A" Custom not only has the last 36HP engine, but the last pan to have welded in nubs to snap over the old style mats, but it is the last beetle to have the stud, claw & wingnut to secure the front seats ( NO SEAT tracks) and uses the old style steering column and steering wheels ( the 1200"A" uses the old standard three spoke that goes back to 1938 and the 1200"A" Custom for 1965 uses the old 1956-1959 deluxe steering wheel-see below.
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20834/images/img_0136_edited_1.jpg

Awesome.

It is interesting how the Beetle varies across countries, even for the same year/model. In Brazil we had the 6-volt system until the middle 1966. The 12-volt comes with the bigger window and the 1300cc engine (It was 1200 before 1966).

This will amaze you. The last Beetle made in Germany to have 6 Volts is 1974!
And the Last Beetle ever made in Germany ( January 1978 ) was a 1200, swing axle!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1814329.jpg

Cool. I was aware of the 1200cc as the last one produced in Germany. But that info about the 6 volts is totally new to me. Thanks for that! :)

Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:39 pm

Eduardo Sauner wrote: Helfen wrote: Eduardo Sauner wrote: Helfen wrote: Eduardo, I think that just past the mid- to late 60's The cars from Australia and So. East Asia also used the 58-64 body. In 1972 a guy that lived in the same apartment building as me in Hermosa Beach Ca. had a deluxe 1967 Mexican Beetle that was on the old 58-64 Body.
Also, A friend of mine bought a new 67 Beetle in Hamburg Germany and shipped it to L.A. for her to drive to U.C.L.A. That 67 is a deluxe 1300, 6volt system with the old style headlamps/fenders, seen here next to my sea blue 65 1200 "A" Custom.
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20834/images/img_0138_edited_1.jpg

So you not only have differences from the old body types, but after 1966 you have old fenders on new body.
Speaking of old and new. My 65 1200"A" Custom not only has the last 36HP engine, but the last pan to have welded in nubs to snap over the old style mats, but it is the last beetle to have the stud, claw & wingnut to secure the front seats ( NO SEAT tracks) and uses the old style steering column and steering wheels ( the 1200"A" uses the old standard three spoke that goes back to 1938 and the 1200"A" Custom for 1965 uses the old 1956-1959 deluxe steering wheel-see below.
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20834/images/img_0136_edited_1.jpg

Awesome.

It is interesting how the Beetle varies across countries, even for the same year/model. In Brazil we had the 6-volt system until the middle 1966. The 12-volt comes with the bigger window and the 1300cc engine (It was 1200 before 1966).

This will amaze you. The last Beetle made in Germany to have 6 Volts is 1974!
And the Last Beetle ever made in Germany ( January 1978 ) was a 1200, swing axle!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1814329.jpg

Cool. I was aware of the 1200cc as the last one produced in Germany. But that info about the 6 volts is totally new to me. Thanks for that! :)

Eduardo, you have everett to thank for that for compiling most of all this information. He has done a great service to the VW community! The part about 1974 being the last 6 Volt car I found in the literature section of the samba in the brochure section for Germany.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/74bug_german/page28.jpg

Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:01 pm

The body jigs and maybe presses were sent from Australia to Brazil around the closure of the Australian plant in the late 60's. Up until then Australian models had the old '64 body and window sizes. Australia went to CKD and fully imported after that for the '68 and on models.

That is why you have the Brazilian shape you have.

So for all of the US '67 "one year only" people on here, the Australian '67 was a small window, sloping headlight, 5 spoke wheeled, domed hubcap, 6V model. Plus RHD.

Now that's rare!

Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:09 pm

Here's a photo taken from our Local Club VW NSW website showing a brochure of the time.

And here is a history of Australian production and how Brazil ended up with the car that they did.

https://www.clubvw.org.au/vwreference/history/history004/

Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:32 pm

In 1974, while attending college, I worked in a gas station in the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles, California. At that time around here, gas was pumped by employees at gas stations. So I got up close to lots of cars.

One of our regular customers was a recently retired US Air Force Colonel. He had come from being stationed in West Germany. When coming to the US, he brought his 1967 VW Deluxe Bug. It had the same German Market aluminum label on the front 1/4 panels same as my 1965 Fly- 'N Drive sold in the US, but delivered in Germany Bug had.

His '67 was 1500cc, and 12V electricals with a locking steering column. It had the glass covered headlights like a US market 6V 1966 and earlier Bug. But with 12V H4 bulbs and different headlight glass than US. The tail lamp lenses were amber topped, while US, even replacement, tail light lenses at the time were all red. It also had 3-point seat belts, although the US market '67 Bug I owned later also had factory 3-point belts, while my friend's US market '67 has 2-point lap-only front belts and locking steering column, though different from both my '65's column and the one in the German Market '67.

It IS interesting the differences between different markets and different production facilities.

Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:27 pm

viiking wrote: The body jigs and maybe presses were sent from Australia to Brazil around the closure of the Australian plant in the late 60's. Up until then Australian models had the old '64 body and window sizes. Australia went to CKD and fully imported after that for the '68 and on models.

That is why you have the Brazilian shape you have.

So for all of the US '67 "one year only" people on here, the Australian '67 was a small window, sloping headlight, 5 spoke wheeled, domed hubcap, 6V model. Plus RHD.

Now that's rare!

There is a video in the split window section about vintage photos that shows the Australian factory. I believe ( mid 60's time frame) they mentioned how all VW production and most parts were going to be made in Australia. They seemed to be pretty far along in that endeavor. Wonder what went wrong??
https://youtu.be/MiCojp22cj8

Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:18 am

The Australian Government initiated a protectionist policy to protect the Australia car industry in the 60's. It required cars to have a minimum of 95% locally produced parts.

My Dad's '64 was built in Australia. All the electrical components were Robert Bosch Australia, Made in Australia etc. The parts were often marked with the VW symbol flanked by two kangaroos.

The problem was that VW sales just dramatically dropped in the mid 60's. The car being the "old" body shape had not changed in many years and the public did not see new models as offering anything new.

The biggest car brands during this time were GM (Holden - a local product) with a straight six, Ford Falcons and Fairlanes, with sixes and later V8's, and Chrysler Valiant ( I guess Plymouth in the US?). The bigger engine and bodies, were much more suited to the long stretches of roads that most Australians traversed. We have a habit of driving really long distances when we go on holidays. The VW did not provide that comfort or performance.

In addition in the mid 60's we saw the introduction of the first Japanese cars which offered so much more value for money. British Leyland cars whilst popular never really got a foothold in the market bar the Morris Mini.

So VW was essentially doomed. It wasn't until in the introduction of the Golf in about 1974(?) that new VW's appeared in the market.

So since then the protectionist policy was reversed and ultimately saw the demise of the entire Australian car industry. First Chrysler local production was sold to Mitsubishi, but ultimately closed down, then Ford and then in the last couple of years GM. So now ALL cars are fully imported and GM, Ford and Chrysler are virtually non-existant here in the market.. With it went tens of thousands of jobs, skills and little opportunity for the younger generations to get into trades. Our population is 13 times smaller than the US and it was inevitable that the economies of scale were not profitable to keep production here.

These days we see Toyota as the leading car brand with Korean and European brands as well. Chinese copies of other peoples cars such as LDV, Haval and Great Wall are making in-roads in the lower end of the market, but the resale value of them seems to be dissuading many people from buying them.

I hope the US can return to its great manufacturing standing. Too many companies took production off-shore to the detriment of the country to save a few dollars and make investors rich. It has and will backfire, as we cannot all be investors. Someone still has to build and make stuff. End of rant.

Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:34 am

viiking wrote: The body jigs and maybe presses were sent from Australia to Brazil around the closure of the Australian plant in the late 60's. Up until then Australian models had the old '64 body and window sizes. Australia went to CKD and fully imported after that for the '68 and on models.

That is why you have the Brazilian shape you have.

So for all of the US '67 "one year only" people on here, the Australian '67 was a small window, sloping headlight, 5 spoke wheeled, domed hubcap, 6V model. Plus RHD.

Now that's rare!

Maybe some bodies and parts were sent to Brazil from Australia, although there is no clear documentation about that (I also never heard this before), but not at the point to explain Brazilian body style. I mean, until 1958 VW did not have a plant in Brazil, so Beetles came from Germany in CKD and were assembled here. Brazilian plant started in the middle of 1959, with around 80% of local production. From 1959 to 1970 the beetle remained basically the same with small changes such as the rear window in 1966.

Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:07 am

viiking, Thank you for clearing up that puzzle. Sounds like after playing by all the rules and investing so much that the government pulled the rug out from under VW. It also sounds like it was a unwise decision that led to the end of Australia's auto industry. There is nothing worse for a country to have to be dependent on others as the U.S. is finding out now but doing nothing about it.

Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:09 am

I spent some time in Southern Brazil on various business trips. I was initially surprised at how many OLD VW's were there-everywhere, just like the US in the 70's. But, after ooh-ing and aah-ing over an old beetle, I was surprised at how many were only a few years old. The 1200 and 1300 engines were in a variety of VW sedans and single/double cab trucks. As rare as the truck models have become in the US, there were plenty of service companies such as electrical, construction, and plumbing contractors using them in fleet fashion for every day business. I see a dozen beetles a year in NW Georgia, it wasn't uncommon to see a few dozen in the parking lot at a mall in Caxias De Sol, Brazil.

The engineer I worked with had a dune buggy with a Corvair conversion and another with a 1776 engine. Complete new engine cases were around $200 at local parts stores. I thought I'd capitalize on that fact and order a truckload to resell here, but the duties, shipping, tariffs, and policy restrictions were not business friendly. Most of my friends thought I was crazy for bringing home dozens of pictures of these cars (and a couple of junk yards) and very few pictures of the local people and cultural stuff. It's all about priorities, I guess.

Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:59 am

drs1023 wrote: I spent some time in Southern Brazil on various business trips. I was initially surprised at how many OLD VW's were there-everywhere, just like the US in the 70's. But, after ooh-ing and aah-ing over an old beetle, I was surprised at how many were only a few years old. The 1200 and 1300 engines were in a variety of VW sedans and single/double cab trucks. As rare as the truck models have become in the US, there were plenty of service companies such as electrical, construction, and plumbing contractors using them in fleet fashion for every day business. I see a dozen beetles a year in NW Georgia, it wasn't uncommon to see a few dozen in the parking lot at a mall in Caxias De Sol, Brazil.

The engineer I worked with had a dune buggy with a Corvair conversion and another with a 1776 engine. Complete new engine cases were around $200 at local parts stores. I thought I'd capitalize on that fact and order a truckload to resell here, but the duties, shipping, tariffs, and policy restrictions were not business friendly. Most of my friends thought I was crazy for bringing home dozens of pictures of these cars (and a couple of junk yards) and very few pictures of the local people and cultural stuff. It's all about priorities, I guess.

This is the region I live :-) . Caxias do Sul is 2-hours from my city (by car). Yes, you still see many beetles on the streets here, however, this became such an expensive hobby nowadays, especially if you intend to keep them original.

Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:58 pm

Eduardo Sauner wrote: viiking wrote: The body jigs and maybe presses were sent from Australia to Brazil around the closure of the Australian plant in the late 60's. Up until then Australian models had the old '64 body and window sizes. Australia went to CKD and fully imported after that for the '68 and on models.

That is why you have the Brazilian shape you have.

So for all of the US '67 "one year only" people on here, the Australian '67 was a small window, sloping headlight, 5 spoke wheeled, domed hubcap, 6V model. Plus RHD.

Now that's rare!

Maybe some bodies and parts were sent to Brazil from Australia, although there is no clear documentation about that (I also never heard this before), but not at the point to explain Brazilian body style. I mean, until 1958 VW did not have a plant in Brazil, so Beetles came from Germany in CKD and were assembled here. Brazilian plant started in the middle of 1959, with around 80% of local production. From 1959 to 1970 the beetle remained basically the same with small changes such as the rear window in 1966.

I provided a link in my previous posts to ClubVWNSW which is one of the largest VW clubs in Australia. There you see the full history of production over the years.

Below is an extract of what happened after the parent company decided to exit production in Australia.

Based on the German VW auditors’ recommendations, VW Australasia Ltd announces that it has withdrawn from the Government's 'Plan A' for 95% local content. Australian VW manufacture will cease immediately, and all future VWs will be either be fully imported, or locally assembled under the Government's 'SV Plan' (small volume), which allows a maximum of just 7,500 units of each 'model' annually, with a local content of 60 percent. The $50 million investment in the Australian factory was written off. The mighty presses, machinery, tooling and equipment are dismantled and sold to VW factories in other countries. The master body jig is sent to Brazil (where the Australian small-window bodies would be made until the 1990s), while the exchange engine equipment ends up in Malaysia. Other more general equipment is sold to Holden and Ford. The Clayton plant is completely stripped out, and refitted for CKD assembly only. VW’s giant press hall, once the pride of the works, now becomes a storage area.

It does not specifically mention that the presses themselves went to Brazil, but other rit mentions that the Australian body style would be made until the 1990's.

I have no doubt that this is true.