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Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:19 pm

Wife's early FJ Cruiser made in 2006 still is on its original Panasonic battery. Has actually outlasted the original alternator which failed years ago. You just know I won't be able to find a replacement like that...

Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:32 am

Cusser wrote: Mot batteries sold in USA are manufactured by one company: Johnson Controls/Clarios. This includes Interstate, Autozone, Walmart O'Reilly, Costco....
They own a battery plant here in our town, pretty good sized employer since 1972.

Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:43 am

yep i recently researched it and learned that the electric vehicle batteries are no different than batteries past in that they degrade with time and degrade with use.
So in order to get your full moneys worth out of them have to stay in the happy zone, and use them up before they dry out and die of old age.

I think vehicles with replaceable standardized batteries will come someday but not anytime in the near future because the battery cost is so high you might as well just get the rest of the car too.

It's not all bad news really, but as far as for some of us who like to own fleets of oddball hobby vehicles it's not looking great idea to convert them all to battery power. Not that most want to but......
Actually think it would be fun to start building a fleet of electric bikes and hot-rod powerwheels and mini-bikes, BUT, not unless they all use the same battery. Can't have thousands of dollars in batteries going to waste.
the price per amp hour is about the same as lead acid, tho they are so much LIGHTER and more compact.

Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:41 am

modok wrote:
So in order to get your full moneys worth out of them have to stay in the happy zone, and use them up before they dry out and die of old age.

I heard about this recently on a radio programme, the advice was to not drop below 20% nor charge over 80% too often to get the best battery life. that's suggesting that you use 60% of the battery capacity!

Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:35 am

I'm in Arizona, and the heat kills batteries. 3 years is considered long battery life here, would say average is 2.5 years.

Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:22 pm

Quote: So in order to get your full moneys worth out of them have to stay in the happy zone, and use them up before they dry out and die of old age.

That was advice to each daughter on leaving the house.

Honestly the battery life issue is the killer for me on these toy cars.

I never buy new, so I’m not going to get any kind of guarantee on battery performance on my depreciating junk heap. How are these things going to age over 10 years, in temperatures from -30 to +30 ?

Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:10 am

What bothers me (I don't own an E Car) is the depreciation from a fairly expensive car (Tesla) to dropping by more than half. Yes, all new cars drop like flies, but if your car has bad batteries it becomes hard to get rid of vs a standard ICE car. Two more neighbors purchased Tesla, now all of them are parked outside every night for fear of fires. 100K and leave it outside? Recycling Tesla batteries ends up in bicycles and cell phones b/c of degraded heavy metals. Sounds a little crazy when you're using a finite source of ore, but Musk is planning to drag a Lithium planet back to earth by 2040.

Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:46 am

It’s a disturbing model because it forces you to buy contracts on a used vehicle.

Cheapest way to own a car is to buy a 3-5 year old reliable and cared for brand, and pay as you go for repairs. That disappears with Tesla and I suspect most others with the software grift.

All my girls are in built up Volvos from $500 non-runners, about $2000-2500 capital cost after refurbishment.

Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:55 am

Abscate wrote: It’s a disturbing model because it forces you to buy contracts on a used vehicle.

Cheapest way to own a car is to buy a 3-5 year old reliable and cared for brand, and pay as you go for repairs. That disappears with Tesla and I suspect most others with the software grift.

All my girls are in built up Volvos from $500 non-runners, about $2000-2500 capital cost after refurbishment.
Correct sir. I was actually looking at a McLaren of all things, but there are disclosures that prohibit so many things and extended warranties you must buy or you're OUT & stuck with nowhere to go but "THEM". Most super cars are all this way. Had no idea about Testicle. I love Volvo, especially the early sport models-super cool/unique like the Bus or an old Merc.

Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:20 pm

this video covers it

Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:49 pm

The batteries in the plug-in cars have an actual capacity that is greater that what is used by the car. There is capacity up top beyond what the car will charge to. There is capacity below what the car will use.

They set it up that way so that the battery is not actually charged to a near full-capacity, and is not discharged to near-empty, which helps the battery last longer overall.

Also, setting the usable range within a broader potential capacity allows the expected battery capacity degradation to occur above the limit that is actually seen by the customer. In other words, the car will have the same mileage available to the customer for years while it slowly degrades, until it eventually gets down into the ranges seen by the customer.

Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:51 pm

finster wrote: this video covers it

Because if it’s YouTube you can bank on it😀

Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:53 am

I’ll say it looks like Tesla nailed this with active temperature management

10%degradation over 7-8 years is pretty good

Not for me for other reasons, but increasingly large market access.

If I were in Tesla marketing, I would offer a free Teslatest app which would let you pretend you own a Tesla for a year, and follow your travels, and let you see your state of charge , tell you when to recharge , etc. in short, take the uncertainty of the range issue out of the buying process to a degree.

Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:33 am

have you patented that app idea? just asking for a friend :wink:

Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:10 pm

Yep good idea,
tho I'd expect tesla is doing that already at least some degree but they keep quiet about it.
I bet tesla knows better than anybody what the ideal cycling would be but will they tell you? :lol:

My concern more about battery power in general.
They do need management even more than old batteries did.

Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:52 pm

finster wrote: have you patented that app idea? just asking for a friend :wink:

Feel free! Lots of obvious to those versed in the field, but you can patent a ham Sandwhich nowadays