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Abscate Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:34 pm

Pruneman99 wrote: MASS x ACCELERATION = FORCE.

Science.

Tesla >> econobox

Darwin

Pruneman99 Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:49 pm

Abscate wrote: Pruneman99 wrote: MASS x ACCELERATION = FORCE.

Science.

Tesla >> econobox

Darwin

That's a pretty insensitive comment. :roll: People that drive econoboxes obviously can't/won't throw a pile of money at a Tesla.

So that's Darwinism?

Floating VW Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:29 pm

Xevin wrote: steve244 wrote: This just in:
We're being lied to about electric vehicles.
https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-cars-ad-why-you-are-being-lied-to/
Thanks, thatís the kind of information Iím looking for. That doesnít me I fully trust everything thing on the internet but itís part of researching what is true and what is BS. Some good take aways in that article.
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: . . .That motortrend article sited every far left rag out there. Not one datapoint was made from a middle ground organization NPR? you couldn't get any further left than those folks
Sorry Xevin, but skills is right. That Motortrend article had a few too many holes in it to be taken at face value. The guy who wrote it appears to have gotten all his information from a New York Times article, who got their information from a single college thesis written by some students at the U of Michigan. The study was funded by the Ford Motor Company (take what you will from that). Several mistakes were made in this study, for which they later had to publish a corrigendum.

The article also bases a lot of its rhetoric on the assumption that in the near future, all of our energy needs will come from renewable sources. In case anyone hasn't noticed, this assumption is one of the key pillars supporting the pro-EV argument.

P.S. Did anyone else notice that the cobalt mine in Idaho is owned by an Australian company? Seems like the American slice of this pie is gettin' smaller and smaller every day.

Xevin Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:44 pm

Floating VW wrote: Xevin wrote: steve244 wrote: This just in:
We're being lied to about electric vehicles.
https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-cars-ad-why-you-are-being-lied-to/
Thanks, thatís the kind of information Iím looking for. That doesnít me I fully trust everything thing on the internet but itís part of researching what is true and what is BS. Some good take aways in that article.
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: . . .That motortrend article sited every far left rag out there. Not one datapoint was made from a middle ground organization NPR? you couldn't get any further left than those folks
Sorry Xevin, but skills is right. That Motortrend article had a few too many holes in it to be taken at face value. The guy who wrote it appears to have gotten all his information from a New York Times article, who got their information from a single college thesis written by some students at the U of Michigan. The study was funded by the Ford Motor Company (take what you will from that). Several mistakes were made in this study, for which they later had to publish a corrigendum.

The article also bases a lot of its rhetoric on the assumption that in the near future, all of our energy needs will come from renewable sources. In case anyone hasn't noticed, this assumption is one of the key pillars supporting the pro-EV argument.

You and I see the same things in the article. However it brings up a couple bullet points worth investigating. Maybe valid, maybe not. I donít believe everything I read on the internet. I do try to be objective until Iím not :wink:
I appreciate people offering up information to explore. Iím no expert on any of this.

oprn Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:51 pm

There has been and always will be vehicles of all different sizes and weights colliding on the roads. Nothing new to see or discuss here folks, nothing specifically EV related move along...

Floating VW Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:13 pm

Onceler wrote: Electric vs. gasoline efficiency


Man, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you, that's not my intention, at all.

But these graphs really need to be exposed for what they are. Every single one of the numbers shown here was cherry-picked to make ICE look a lot worse, and EV's look a lot better, than they really are. The numbers are not exactly lies, it's just that they're not always true.

We already discussed most of this a few pages ago. 16% efficiency for an ICE is only true if you look at the worst ICE on the road. The best ICE is over 50% efficient. Where is that number on the chart? Conversely, only the best EV's are 87-91% efficient; the worst are much lower. And that 87-91% is only when you include that magical "regenerative braking". 22% is pretty good! Except for when you don't do any braking, 'cause then it's 0%. That's also not on the graph.

They did, at least, include the losses incurred at the charging station. Unfortunately, they forgot to include the losses at the power plant and transmission lines, which are kind of important since that's where an EV's "original fuel" actually comes from.

Floating VW Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:24 pm

Xevin wrote: You and I see the same things in the article. However it brings up a couple bullet points worth investigating. Maybe valid, maybe not. I donít believe everything I read on the internet. I do try to be objective until Iím not :wink:
I appreciate people offering up information to explore. Iím no expert on any of this.
Well said.

The Force is strong with this one.

skills@eurocarsplus Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:57 am

steve244 wrote: You're serious, aren't you.

Scary.

What's scary is you drink this stuff up without question or hesitation. Jim Jones would have been proud

Bottoms up

Abscate Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:54 am

EV gives you the ability , in the future , to move transportation energy from fossil to non fossil fuel sourcing. It also gives you the chance to sequester Carbon at the power plant.

Itís that simple , and they are here now because:

They are more economical for a large segment of commuters

TDCTDI Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:41 am

Abscate wrote: EV gives you the ability , in the future , to move transportation energy from fossil to non fossil fuel sourcing. It also gives you the chance to sequester Carbon at the power plant.

Itís that simple , and they are here now because:

They are more economical for a large segment of commuters


This conjures up visions of some hardcore Orwellian caste systemsÖ. Letís just sprinkle in some CBDCÖ

bigdog1962 Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:45 am

Xevin wrote: In 1974 my bug was no match for a Ford LTD

Brings back memories - my parents bought a brand new LTD in the 70s and we nicknamed it "The battleship" because that thing was so big, solid and heavy.

Onceler Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:14 am

Some info on why Co2 and other greenhouse gases trap heat

Quote: This ability to absorb and re-emit infrared energy is what makes CO2 an effective heat-trapping greenhouse gas. Not all gas molecules are able to absorb IR radiation. For example, nitrogen (N2) and oxygen (O2), which make up more than 90% of Earth's atmosphere, do not absorb infrared photons. CO2 molecules can vibrate in ways that simpler nitrogen and oxygen molecules cannot, which allows CO2 molecules to capture the IR photons.



https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/how-climate-w...-radiation

DeathRay64 Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:40 am

In an open atmosphere, that heat is almost instantly released back to the air. Unlike water vapor which is the real greenhouse gas.

steve244 Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:54 am

skills@eurocarsplus wrote: steve244 wrote: You're serious, aren't you.

Scary.

What's scary is you drink this stuff up without question or hesitation. Jim Jones would have been proud

Bottoms up

slurp, slurp.

skills@eurocarsplus wrote: I like premium, and have no problem setting someone's credit card or check book on fire.

steve244 Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:56 am

Pruneman99 wrote: Abscate wrote: Pruneman99 wrote: MASS x ACCELERATION = FORCE.

Science.

Tesla >> econobox

Darwin

That's a pretty insensitive comment. :roll: People that drive econoboxes obviously can't/won't throw a pile of money at a Tesla.

So that's Darwinism?

I know I was deeply offended.

Onceler Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:01 am

The extra greenhouse gases cause extra heating


Onceler Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:06 am

this one has a little better detail


steve244 Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:07 am

Well, water vapor does have a stronger greenhouse effect than CO2. (60% to 25%)

It's just that we can't control water vapor as well as we can CO2.

Plus, adding to the greenhouse effect with CO2, increases heat, which increases the air's capacity for water vapor, and evaporates more water increasing the greenhouse effect.

Runaway!!!!

Onceler Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:11 am

greenhouse gas concentrations are much higher now than at any point in human technological civilisation

TDCTDI Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:21 am

Onceler wrote: greenhouse gas concentrations are much higher now than at any point in human technological civilisation



From ď0Ē to ď2005ĒÖ. When was ď0Ē? Iím pretty sure there werenít any data points from the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, definitely not before it.



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