TheSamba.com :: View topic - Future air-cooled 911 owner questions

Thu May 05, 2022 2:28 pm

I am a long-time enthusiast and hopeful future owner of an air-cooled 911. The timeline to ownership is unknown, but probably 5-10 years from now. I am starting to research the options and thought I'd throw a few questions out there:

1) Which era(s) should I be considering? I want a coupe, naturally aspirated, non-turbo. I love the style of the 60's & 70's 911's but want something more practical in comfort and performance. I am leaning toward the SC's from 1978-1983 but have really just started my research. I like the 84-89 Carrera's too but apparently so does everyone else ($$$)

2) What is a reasonable budget? As we know, prices for all things Porsche continue to skyrocket and who knows where the market will be 5-10 years from now. I am looking for something very original, complete, clean, good paint, and in solid mechanical condition, a driver, not a garage queen, and not a project car. Is $50-75K a reasonable budget?

3) What are the hidden costs of ownership - maintenance, insurance, etc.? I am sure parts are expensive. I can do some wrenching myself, but I don't have the best workspace or tools, so I would be outsourcing any major labor. I assume insurance through Hagerty would be fairly reasonable (I have an agreed policy with them on our Westy)

4) Where else should I point my research? Any other tips?

Comments are greatly appreciated!

Thu May 05, 2022 7:42 pm

Get a galvanized model, and spend the time finding a mechanic thats close to you, a Porsche mechanic. accept no substitutes. The Previous owner preferably a pilot, lawyer or doctor in that order. and find a car thats still got bird poop from being stored since he passed away.

Sun May 08, 2022 3:42 am

VWFIXER wrote: Get a galvanized model, and spend the time finding a mechanic thats close to you, a Porsche mechanic. accept no substitutes. The Previous owner preferably a pilot, lawyer or doctor in that order. and find a car thats still got bird poop from being stored since he passed away.

Thanks for your reply. Good thoughts there. I may need 5-10 years to find that long-deceased pilot-owned unicorn!

Seems like there is not a lot of action in the Porsche forum?

Sun May 08, 2022 6:01 pm

I don't post here much but have owned my 75 911 for the past 18 years. You can't go wrong with the years you listed 78-89. I actually prefer the 74-77 but a lot of people look down on those years to do the thermal reactors that were on the 75-77 years and full galvanized bodies weren't made until 76 I believe. That said most problem areas are usually fixed by now and I know of a lot of happy 74-77 owners.

When you do find one that you like no matter the year, get an independent shop to do a ppi on it. Costs can add up real fast on these cars and I would save some of your budget for any necessary repairs that are needed after you purchase, say like $10k to be safe.

I heard many times to buy the newest one you can afford and there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche.

I think my agreed value insurance through american collectors is around $350-400 a year.

The cars a relatively easy to work on and I do all my own work. I have my engine out now as a matter of fact and will hopefully get it back in soon.

Go to the pelican parts 911 forum and start reading up there. Lots of knowledge about these cars there.

Good luck on your search and I hope these ridiculous prices come down by the time you are ready to buy.

Sun May 08, 2022 6:29 pm

Vanuber wrote: VWFIXER wrote: Get a galvanized model, and spend the time finding a mechanic thats close to you, a Porsche mechanic. accept no substitutes. The Previous owner preferably a pilot, lawyer or doctor in that order. and find a car thats still got bird poop from being stored since he passed away.

Thanks for your reply. Good thoughts there. I may need 5-10 years to find that long-deceased pilot-owned unicorn!

Seems like there is not a lot of action in the Porsche forum?

Most Porsche owners don’t moonlight as mechanics. My second Porsche was a 67 912 that I scored on. Tripled its value in 3 months from my labor. I could tell you how to find your car, but that would be a bit much so early 😂 on. Guy that sold it too me was pissed I paid his asking price and was driving it a few weeks later. Small island.

Mon May 09, 2022 7:26 am

allaircooled wrote: I don't post here much but have owned my 75 911 for the past 18 years. You can't go wrong with the years you listed 78-89. I actually prefer the 74-77 but a lot of people look down on those years to do the thermal reactors that were on the 75-77 years and full galvanized bodies weren't made until 76 I believe. That said most problem areas are usually fixed by now and I know of a lot of happy 74-77 owners.

When you do find one that you like no matter the year, get an independent shop to do a ppi on it. Costs can add up real fast on these cars and I would save some of your budget for any necessary repairs that are needed after you purchase, say like $10k to be safe.

I heard many times to buy the newest one you can afford and there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche.

I think my agreed value insurance through american collectors is around $350-400 a year.

The cars a relatively easy to work on and I do all my own work. I have my engine out now as a matter of fact and will hopefully get it back in soon.

Go to the pelican parts 911 forum and start reading up there. Lots of knowledge about these cars there.

Good luck on your search and I hope these ridiculous prices come down by the time you are ready to buy.

Thanks for your reply. That's very helpful information. Good tips on the PPI and initial repair budget. I will check out the Pelican Parts forum.

I actually prefer the styling and colors of the mid-year 74-77 models. I have read that the 2.7 engine is problematic due to the magnesium case, oil leaks, etc. which is why I haven't been considering them. But I like the more minimal design of these models and the weight compared to SC and early Carrera's. Fully galvanized seems like a necessity after seeing the vulnerability of my Vanagon in the Virginia humidity.

How do you find the comfort of the mid-years compared to later models?

Mon May 09, 2022 7:32 am

VWFIXER wrote: Most Porsche owners don’t moonlight as mechanics. My second Porsche was a 67 912 that I scored on. Tripled its value in 3 months from my labor. I could tell you how to find your car, but that would be a bit much so early 😂 on. Guy that sold it too me was pissed I paid his asking price and was driving it a few weeks later. Small island.

I do like to wrench but my experience is mostly limited to motorcycles. It was good to hear from allaircooled that the mid-years are easy to work on.

Fri May 19, 2023 6:59 am

Vanuber--are you on the Pelican forums? the 911 forum is a font of wisdom which I use extensively for all things Porsche. I'm also an air cooled BMW guy, I had my R75/5 for decades, I also had a '75 R90/6. Such great machines. Agree with all the advice above. I also chose to go with a galvanized model ('81 911SC Targa), I do all the maintenance and repairs myself.

I agree with VWFixer that "Porsche owners don’t moonlight as mechanics", which I find frustrating since most of the BMW airhead guys I know work on their bikes. I have a low profile floor jack, jack stands, and a decent tool kit and can do most work in my garage. My VW buddy has a lift so we work on my car at his shop sometimes. There are really good write ups on Pelican and a growing number of youtube tutorials (Joe Engineer and Klassik Automotive Training School are good).

I have done all the oil changes, tune ups, brake fluid flush, trans oil change, etc... I decided not to become a K Jet "expert" and to ditch the K Jet and go with EFI (so now I have to learn to tune lol), I replaced the ground straps and installed a new engine bay wiring harness. If you enjoy wrenching, these are very well built machines (they share that quality with the air cooled BMWs in my opinion). I have driven my 911 over 20,000 miles in the 4 years I've had it. Not a lot but just to give you an idea -- these cars are meant to be driven.

Subscribe to the Porsche Club of America's "Panorama" magazine (you can subX without owning one as a "Test Drive") to access the classifieds, there are usually mid years and SCs for sale there. I think you will be able to find a car in your budget. Avoid BAT, the prices are insane. Avoid Beverly Hills Car Club, they are known for selling cars that need lots of work.

Hope this helps!

John
1981 911SC Targa

Fri May 19, 2023 9:33 am

motorstereo wrote: Vanuber--are you on the Pelican forums? the 911 forum is a font of wisdom which I use extensively for all things Porsche. I'm also an air cooled BMW guy, I had my R75/5 for decades, I also had a '75 R90/6. Such great machines. Agree with all the advice above. I also chose to go with a galvanized model ('81 911SC Targa), I do all the maintenance and repairs myself.

I agree with VWFixer that "Porsche owners don’t moonlight as mechanics", which I find frustrating since most of the BMW airhead guys I know work on their bikes. I have a low profile floor jack, jack stands, and a decent tool kit and can do most work in my garage. My VW buddy has a lift so we work on my car at his shop sometimes. There are really good write ups on Pelican and a growing number of youtube tutorials (Joe Engineer and Klassik Automotive Training School are good).

I have done all the oil changes, tune ups, brake fluid flush, trans oil change, etc... I decided not to become a K Jet "expert" and to ditch the K Jet and go with EFI (so now I have to learn to tune lol), I replaced the ground straps and installed a new engine bay wiring harness. If you enjoy wrenching, these are very well built machines (they share that quality with the air cooled BMWs in my opinion). I have driven my 911 over 20,000 miles in the 4 years I've had it. Not a lot but just to give you an idea -- these cars are meant to be driven.

Subscribe to the Porsche Club of America's "Panorama" magazine (you can subX without owning one as a "Test Drive") to access the classifieds, there are usually mid years and SCs for sale there. I think you will be able to find a car in your budget. Avoid BAT, the prices are insane. Avoid Beverly Hills Car Club, they are known for selling cars that need lots of work.

Hope this helps!

John
1981 911SC Targa

Hi John. Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Nice to hear from a fellow Airhead.

Yes, I joined Pelican shortly after starting this thread. There is a lot of activity and wisdom there, as you say.

Awesome to hear you do a lot of work yourself on your SC. That is part of the appeal with the earlier cars IMO. I love working on my /5's - it's good therapy. I'm glad that ethic can apply to an air-cooled 911.

Good thought on the PCA magazine. I do look at BaT to satisfy my lust, but usually leads to frustration at not being able to own at the moment. It is a good snapshot of the market, though I am sure there are better buys in private sales.

I had some discussion with the owner of the car below on Pelican before he put it on BaT. I imagine a negotiated price would have been higher than the auction price with the work he put into it. I guess there was at least one deal to be had on BaT!

LINK - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1977-porsche-911s-55/

We have a baby coming in June and just bought a commercial building to house our businesses. It will take a few years for the dust to settle with our finances before I can consider buying. Hopefully, the market will continue to flatten or my dreams to own may have to remain dreams.

Fri May 19, 2023 2:01 pm

Good luck in your quest.

The 1974 to 1977 models spent a long time as the black sheep in the aircooled 911 family. The best deals are presently in this group. I like them a lot because they retain the narrow body of the long hood cars. And the 2.7 is a nice engine, assuming the thermal reactors have been removed.

Of the SC's, the 1978 and 1979 models are my favorite since bright trim was still available around the windows. I think in '80 it was all black.

That said, if you find a deal on an SC, the 3.0 is a fantastic engine for these cars. And they will hold their value.

Good luck.

Tue May 23, 2023 5:01 am

Dane Tyler wrote: Good luck in your quest.

The 1974 to 1977 models spent a long time as the black sheep in the aircooled 911 family. The best deals are presently in this group. I like them a lot because they retain the narrow body of the long hood cars. And the 2.7 is a nice engine, assuming the thermal reactors have been removed.

Of the SC's, the 1978 and 1979 models are my favorite since bright trim was still available around the windows. I think in '80 it was all black.

That said, if you find a deal on an SC, the 3.0 is a fantastic engine for these cars. And they will hold their value.

Good luck.

Thanks for the response. The 1974-1977 narrow bodies are my top pick. Being fully galvanized, the '77 is probably the best choice, though a rust-free '74 would be ideal - lacking the thermal reactors, nicer bumper details. It seems prices on the mid-years are rising quickly. A birth-year '80 SC would be runner up. But honestly, I would be happy with any 1974-1989 coupe if it was clean, documented, unmolested, and the right price.

Tue May 23, 2023 8:47 am

the best is an 87 88 or 89. However the best buy is a water cooled 996 or 997

Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:28 am

Vanuber wrote: Dane Tyler wrote: Good luck in your quest.

The 1974 to 1977 models spent a long time as the black sheep in the aircooled 911 family. The best deals are presently in this group. I like them a lot because they retain the narrow body of the long hood cars. And the 2.7 is a nice engine, assuming the thermal reactors have been removed.

Of the SC's, the 1978 and 1979 models are my favorite since bright trim was still available around the windows. I think in '80 it was all black.

That said, if you find a deal on an SC, the 3.0 is a fantastic engine for these cars. And they will hold their value.

Good luck.

Thanks for the response. The 1974-1977 narrow bodies are my top pick. Being fully galvanized, the '77 is probably the best choice, though a rust-free '74 would be ideal - lacking the thermal reactors, nicer bumper details. It seems prices on the mid-years are rising quickly. A birth-year '80 SC would be runner up. But honestly, I would be happy with any 1974-1989 coupe if it was clean, documented, unmolested, and the right price.

The 1977 US version was the best 911 ever built.

If you were a Porsche mechanic back in the 80's

I grew up working on Porsches as my dad had a Porsche repair shop. The 1977 models were our favorite as they made it to about 40K and they burned and leaked lots of oil. They were a cash cow for us. 1974-1976 were great too. Again, we made lots of money on those. For a long time there were at least two to three of those in the lot waiting to get the engine rebuilt. Back then they were around $3500 for a complete rebuild. I did so many of them that I can't imagine that there would be any left that haven't been gone through at least twice.

As for the thermal reactors, I'd be surprised any have them left. We changed those out many times with the non version (same for 930's). Maybe a CA version might still need them and might still have the EGR and air pump on it.

I'd concentrate on one with the least rust on it. Many were rusting out 10 years down the road. Most people actually used them as daily drivers.

Best thing with the 1977 models were a customer would get the bad news about the engine, thus sell the car. A month later, same car shows up with a new owner. Thus he got the bad news too.

Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:53 am

love love the sarcasm, you are right, our shop made LOADS of money on the 74-77 911 replacing the case studs and dealing with other related engine problems

jjvincent wrote: Vanuber wrote: Dane Tyler wrote: Good luck in your quest.

The 1974 to 1977 models spent a long time as the black sheep in the aircooled 911 family. The best deals are presently in this group. I like them a lot because they retain the narrow body of the long hood cars. And the 2.7 is a nice engine, assuming the thermal reactors have been removed.

Of the SC's, the 1978 and 1979 models are my favorite since bright trim was still available around the windows. I think in '80 it was all black.

That said, if you find a deal on an SC, the 3.0 is a fantastic engine for these cars. And they will hold their value.

Good luck.

Thanks for the response. The 1974-1977 narrow bodies are my top pick. Being fully galvanized, the '77 is probably the best choice, though a rust-free '74 would be ideal - lacking the thermal reactors, nicer bumper details. It seems prices on the mid-years are rising quickly. A birth-year '80 SC would be runner up. But honestly, I would be happy with any 1974-1989 coupe if it was clean, documented, unmolested, and the right price.

The 1977 US version was the best 911 ever built.

If you were a Porsche mechanic back in the 80's

I grew up working on Porsches as my dad had a Porsche repair shop. The 1977 models were our favorite as they made it to about 40K and they burned and leaked lots of oil. They were a cash cow for us. 1974-1976 were great too. Again, we made lots of money on those. For a long time there were at least two to three of those in the lot waiting to get the engine rebuilt. Back then they were around $3500 for a complete rebuild. I did so many of them that I can't imagine that there would be any left that haven't been gone through at least twice.

As for the thermal reactors, I'd be surprised any have them left. We changed those out many times with the non version (same for 930's). Maybe a CA version might still need them and might still have the EGR and air pump on it.

I'd concentrate on one with the least rust on it. Many were rusting out 10 years down the road. Most people actually used them as daily drivers.

Best thing with the 1977 models were a customer would get the bad news about the engine, thus sell the car. A month later, same car shows up with a new owner. Thus he got the bad news too.