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Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:29 pm

My mechanic has informed me that the Utah Legeslature has changed the emissions requirments for Vintage Vehicles. Previously your Vanagon was exempt from emissions testing if it was over 30 years old, but they have changed it to require emissions testing if it was a 1981 or newer, which includes most Vanagons. This only applies if you live in a county that requires testing.

https://dmv.utah.gov/plates/vintagevehicle

At least I had a few years without playing the emissions game on my van that I only drive a couple of thousand miles a year (if I'm lucky).

Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:05 am

Future generations thank you for caring about them

Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:00 am

I read this on the internet...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_quality_in_Utah
Air quality in Utah is often some of the worst in the United States.[1][2] Poor air quality in Utah is due to the mountainous topography which can cause pollutants to build up near the surface (especially during inversions[2]) combined with the prevalence of emissions from gasoline- and diesel-powered vehicles, especially older models.[3][4] Burning wood fuel for home heating can also contribute significantly to poor air quality. Homes heated with wood contribute about 3000 times the amount of pollution as homes heated with natural gas.[4] About 50% of air pollution in Salt Lake County is from vehicles.[5]

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Utah has had mixed responses to poor air quality. For example, from 2015 to 2016 the state offered up to a $1500 credit for clean fuel vehicles[9] However, in 2019 Utah began imposing an additional registration fee on clean fuel vehicles that will increase to $120 annually by 2021.[10]

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Some of the most recognized globally recognized epidemiological studies of air quality on human health have been performed in Utah. BYU professor Arden Pope has been researching health and air quality for over 30 years.[46] Pope's research began by using changes in emissions from the Geneva Steel plant in Utah Valley in a natural experiment. Pope noted an "astonishing" difference in admissions for pediatric respiratory hospital admissions when the plant was not operating. A 2016 study linked poor air quality with blood vessel damage in BYU students.[47] An analysis by the Salt Lake Tribune noted increased school absences along the Wasatch Front during air pollution episodes in Utah, though additional research is needed to determine whether or not absences were due to other coinciding incidents.[48] Life expectancy increased by about 3 years from 1980 to 2000 and 5 months of that were attributed to better air quality by Pope.[49]

Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:42 pm

jimf909 wrote: I read this on the internet...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_quality_in_Utah
Air quality in Utah is often some of the worst in the United States.[1][2] Poor air quality in Utah is due to the mountainous topography which can cause pollutants to build up near the surface (especially during inversions[2]) combined with the prevalence of emissions from gasoline- and diesel-powered vehicles, especially older models.[3][4] Burning wood fuel for home heating can also contribute significantly to poor air quality. Homes heated with wood contribute about 3000 times the amount of pollution as homes heated with natural gas.[4] About 50% of air pollution in Salt Lake County is from vehicles.[5]

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Utah has had mixed responses to poor air quality. For example, from 2015 to 2016 the state offered up to a $1500 credit for clean fuel vehicles[9] However, in 2019 Utah began imposing an additional registration fee on clean fuel vehicles that will increase to $120 annually by 2021.[10]

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Some of the most recognized globally recognized epidemiological studies of air quality on human health have been performed in Utah. BYU professor Arden Pope has been researching health and air quality for over 30 years.[46] Pope's research began by using changes in emissions from the Geneva Steel plant in Utah Valley in a natural experiment. Pope noted an "astonishing" difference in admissions for pediatric respiratory hospital admissions when the plant was not operating. A 2016 study linked poor air quality with blood vessel damage in BYU students.[47] An analysis by the Salt Lake Tribune noted increased school absences along the Wasatch Front during air pollution episodes in Utah, though additional research is needed to determine whether or not absences were due to other coinciding incidents.[48] Life expectancy increased by about 3 years from 1980 to 2000 and 5 months of that were attributed to better air quality by Pope.[49]

Seems to me that fireplaces need catalytic converters, and smog checks. Wood fireplace heating is 3000 times worse than clean natural gas heated homes! Maybe I can get a clean air rebate since I never heat my home with a wood fire.

I bet an old diesel Vangaon is not 3000 times worse than an average Tesla.

Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:41 pm

A lot of modern wood stoves do have a catalytic combusters that significantly reduce pollution so it's a matter of replacing all the older gross polluters with cleaner burning replacements. Of course massive wildfires can wipe out all the hard earned gains in air quality.

https://midwesthearth.com/pages/catalytic-combustor-faq

Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:20 pm

jimf909 wrote: A lot of modern wood stoves do have a catalytic combusters that significantly reduce pollution so it's a matter of replacing all the older gross polluters with cleaner burning replacements. Of course massive wildfires can wipe out all the hard earned gains in air quality.

https://midwesthearth.com/pages/catalytic-combustor-faq

Even with these catalysts wood fires are far worse than natural gas heaters.

Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:32 pm

missoula, beautiful missoula montana, also has some of the worst air quality in the US. Heavily populated valleys, places flanked by hills or mountains, are bound to be pockets of awful air quality. throw wildfires and heavy industry in there and it's even worse.

Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:36 am

I’d like to see a study of how much carbon is emitted from the remaining 40 year old vehicles on the road vs the carbon emitted by the factory building a new car from scratch.

Sun Mar 05, 2023 10:27 am

MarkWard wrote: I’d like to see a study of how much carbon is emitted from the remaining 40 year old vehicles on the road vs the carbon emitted by the factory building a new car from scratch.

👍

And the effects of lithium battery material gathering and production and disposal

Sun Mar 05, 2023 12:35 pm

One of the testing facilities was pushing me to just register my van as a vintage vehicle cause it was cheaper. But I do daily drive it and have gone on a few trips out of the valley with it so that would technically not be following the guidelines of what it is for. But I still see a lot of Hondas rolling around with no mufflers and I am sure the cat is gone or empty with these plates. And they drive around daily as well.
The question is what is the change going to do exactly? Are they going to actually enforce anything?

Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:17 pm

Glenn73 wrote: One of the testing facilities was pushing me to just register my van as a vintage vehicle cause it was cheaper. But I do daily drive it and have gone on a few trips out of the valley with it so that would technically not be following the guidelines of what it is for. But I still see a lot of Hondas rolling around with no mufflers and I am sure the cat is gone or empty with these plates. And they drive around daily as well.
The question is what is the change going to do exactly? Are they going to actually enforce anything?

My guess is that you will not be able to re-register your van unless you get and pass an emissions check. The Vintage Vehicle plates are not for daily drivers although there seem to be a lot of them on the streets. I was told that going on camping trips was ok since it was not like I was driving it to work every day. That's what they seem to care about. When I drive out to state I'm generally going to a car show or van gathering. I'm lucky to get more than a couple of trips a year, otherwise it stays in my garage. My driving in Salt Lake County is mostly just to get out of here.

Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:26 pm

True but my van is fully registered and passes emissions. I wanted to go to Busses by the bridge this year but I bent a pushrod a few weeks before and was waiting on parts. But yeah I see way too many cars using the vintage plates just to skirt the emissions.

Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:41 pm

MarkWard wrote: I’d like to see a study of how much carbon is emitted from the remaining 40 year old vehicles on the road vs the carbon emitted by the factory building a new car from scratch.

The average gas car or Tesla has roughly equal carbon footprints of usage and manufacturing.

That means your 40 year old Vanagon out greens everything.

Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:25 pm

MarkWard wrote: I’d like to see a study of how much carbon is emitted from the remaining 40 year old vehicles on the road vs the carbon emitted by the factory building a new car from scratch.

This is the correct question to ask. There are not that many older vehicles here anymore. Even 30 year old cars are somewhat rare in the grand scheme of things.

Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:38 pm

hans j wrote: MarkWard wrote: I’d like to see a study of how much carbon is emitted from the remaining 40 year old vehicles on the road vs the carbon emitted by the factory building a new car from scratch.

This is the correct question to ask. There are not that many older vehicles here anymore. Even 30 year old cars are somewhat rare in the grand scheme of things.

It is very rare for me to see any car older than my newest car other than at a car show!

Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:28 am

Everytime I drive our van, we are going to a "show". Everywhere I stop, someone wants to talk about the van, tell me their family VW story and look inside. Show and Tell.

Not like I'm running a lawnmowing business out the the back of a 70s El Camino. :wink:

Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:02 am

Love My Westy wrote: Glenn73 wrote: The question is what is the change going to do exactly? Are they going to actually enforce anything?

My guess is that you will not be able to re-register your van unless you get and pass an emissions check.

Exactly.

Here in AZ, vehicles registered in Maricopa and (most of) Pima counties receive renewal notices with "EMISSIONS TEST REQUIRED" on them. The testing facilities are electronically linked to the MVD. The vehicle's registration cannot be renewed until it passes an emissions test.

AZ has a historical plate, but it doesn't exempt the vehcile from testing. Our Classic Car plate essentially exempts the vehicle from emissions, but it’s only allowed on vehicles manufactured between 1915 and 1948.

Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:24 am

Washington state terminated all emissions testing in 2020 because the it was satisfied with the progress made and expected the trajectory to continue. This is interesting given that other states are becoming more strict.

Maybe this is a play to attract every last Vanagon owner on the planet to the Evergreen State.

Emission check program ended
https://ecology.wa.gov/Air-Climate/Air-quality/Vehicle-emissions/Emissions-check-ends

Does this mean we'll have more air pollution?
We expect air quality to continue to improve as older vehicles are replaced with newer, cleaner cars. Ecology will continue to monitor air quality conditions throughout Washington. If we see reasons for concern, we will take steps to protect air quality.

Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:42 am

Maryland has no tailpipe testing for vehicles 1995 and older and under 8500lbs regardless of vehicle tag type.

Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:52 am

The passing of laws that focus on tiny pockets of the constituency for feel-good reasons is legislative masturbation.