TheSamba.com :: View topic - 67 emergency flasher problem Please help!

Sat May 27, 2023 10:07 pm

My problem is the front and rear lights do not come on at all whenever I activate my emergency flasher switch. When I pull the switch, the red emergency flashed switch blinks “red” fast and the turn signal light in the speedometer also blinks fast. I can hear my “9 pin flasher relay” clicking. I recently put a new Wolfsburg West wiring harness, turn signal switch, front bulb holders, and blinker/emergency relay. All of the other lights function properly such as the front and rear running lights, brake lights, and front and rear blinkers. I currently do not have a headlight dimmer relay installed because I am waiting for it to arrive. I have checked the ground on my dash where the emergency flashed is located and it is snug against bare metal to the dash. I also checked the ground for the 9 pin blinker relay and it is good.
I am at a loss and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sun May 28, 2023 7:24 pm

Sounds like bad grounds from each the turn signal bulbs to the body.

When you just use the turn signal the bulbs on that side are grounding thru the wiring harness back feeding, but with the E-flasher those wires are not able to be used as grounds.

Mon May 29, 2023 6:34 am

Thank you! I will check all four grounds.

Mon May 29, 2023 8:05 am

Well…… at another loss! I cleaned all four turn signal housings to the body and made sure the ground was good. Still same flashing blinking emergency flasher at switch and dash turn signal lights but no flashing lights. Is there a way I can test the flasher relay to ensure it isn’t the problem?

Mon May 29, 2023 9:14 am

LAPacman wrote: Well…… at another loss! I cleaned all four turn signal housings to the body and made sure the ground was good. Still same flashing blinking emergency flasher at switch and dash turn signal lights but no flashing lights. Is there a way I can test the flasher relay to ensure it isn’t the problem?

All the ground connections? Beetle turn signals are grounded at each bulb holder to the turn signal housing. Each housing is grounded to the fender. Each fender is grounded to the body. Each point could be a weak or no ground. Testing for a good ground need to use enough wattage to make sure of exposing of a weak ground. Using a 1/10th of a watt multi-meter does not truly test a connection that will require 20-35 watts. VW later on installed factory ground wires in the beetle (and bus) from each bulb holder to the body to skip so many possible ground failures.

Mon May 29, 2023 9:57 am

Thanks for your insight!

Mon May 29, 2023 11:12 am

It looks like the wiring is wrong at the flasher unit, but it is really hard to say 100%, from your 1st picture. Can you unscrew the flasher unit and rotate so that the terminals with the wires attached, can be seen? Same goes for the flasher switch.

What wattage of bulb are you using at the 4 corners?

Mon May 29, 2023 11:26 am

If the turn signals work normally then the relay is not the problem.

More likely a wiring issue at the relay, especially perhaps where the wires from VR and VL tie into the wires that run to the bulbs.

If you don't have anything on the VR and VL terminals at the flasher, then you found your problem. :D

Mon May 29, 2023 2:44 pm

I wired the entire car with a new Wolfsburg wiring harness. I “think” I followed the wiring diagram for my vehicle. I can’t see any wiring problems at the blinker relay. The wires for both front and rear bulbs all tied in properly to the blinker really.

Mon May 29, 2023 2:54 pm

Trace the wires from VR and VL. What do they connect to?

When the relay does the fast flash it's because it is not seeing the electrical load expected (I.e. the bulbs). This serves as a convenient bulb-out indicator feature because if a bulb burns out, the turn signal will flash faster so you know.

So if flash speed is normal when using turn signal function (meaning the bulbs are good and the relay sees that) but fast when using flasher function, that would seem to indicate that there is an issue with how the wires from VR and VL are tied into the bulb circuit.

The hazard flasher output is on the VR and VL terminals which overrides and bypasses the turn signal switch. The regular turn signal flashing output is on 49a which gets distributed to the appropriate side of the car via the turn signal switch.

Mon May 29, 2023 3:05 pm

This is the key area you need to look at - the Y connectors (marked T in the diagram) where the VR and VL wires tie into the wires going to the bulbs.

Mon May 29, 2023 3:21 pm

The wires from VL and VR are wired the same as the diagram see attached photo.

Mon May 29, 2023 3:26 pm

I am very new at this so please bare with me. I tested the relay and got 12 volts out of VL and VR when I turned my left and right blinkers on….. there was no voltage out of either connection when just the key is on. However, when I put the emergency flasher on, I also did not get any voltage out of either VL or VR. I would think that I should get 12 volts out of both of those connectors when the flashers are on. That should bypass any ground issues that may be happening?

Mon May 29, 2023 3:32 pm

Yes you will see 12v (flashing) at the VR and VL when the corresponding turn signal is turned on because they are connected via that Y connector.

Yes I would think you should see 12v (flashing) out of VR and VL when you turn the flashers on.

As a further test I would disconnect the wire from each Y connector that goes to the bulbs (not the ones that go to the turn signal switch) and connect them directly to VR and VL and turn on flashers.

If that doesn't work (I.e. same symptoms) then I would begin to suspect the flasher relay itself.

Mon May 29, 2023 5:02 pm

Just for grins, try disconnecting the brown S terminal wire from the hazard switch and touch it to a verified good ground to see if the hazards start working like they should. I would also try cleaning all connections associated with fuse block position 8 to be sure you're getting full power through the fuse and terminals.

The normal function of the nine pin relay has switched power from the ignition going in at terminal 15, passing through the flasher relay, out at terminal 49a and on to the turn signal switch. When the turn signal switch is activated to the right or left, the connection through the signal bulbs provides a load for the flasher to operate and a path to ground to complete the circuit -- the result is the signal bulbs on the selected side flash.

For the nine pin relay's hazard function, power comes from the battery via the fuse block fuse 8 to terminal 30. When you pull the hazard switch knob out, it provides a ground via the terminal S wire which activates a relay which switches the power input path to the flasher relay over from the ignition 15 terminal input to the fuse block 30 terminal input. This relay at the same time also connects the flasher output to terminals 49a, VL, and VR. This function connects the flasher to all four signal bulbs, thus causing them all to flash independent of the turn signal switch position. At the moment, it sounds like this selector/mode/switching relay (whatever you want to call it) isn't working properly.

Tue May 30, 2023 3:01 pm

LAPacman wrote: I tested the relay and got 12 volts out of VL and VR when I turned my left and right blinkers on…
You were actually measuring power coming out of 49a, thru the turn signal switch and to the 4-way junction. The VL and VR terminals of the flasher relay should NOT output any voltage when the E-Flasher switch is OFF. They just happened to be connected to the L and R output of the turn signal switch at the 4-way junctions.

LAPacman wrote: ... there was no voltage out of either connection when just the key is on.
This is normal.

LAPacman wrote: However, when I put the emergency flasher on, I also did not get any voltage out of either VL or VR. I would think that I should get 12 volts out of both of those connectors when the flashers are on.
You are correct. You should expect to measure voltage coming out of VL and VR when the E-Flasher switch grounds the S terminal and puts the flasher relay into E-Flasher mode.

LAPacman wrote: That should bypass any ground issues that may be happening?
The grounds at the bulbs and the power coming from the flasher relay are two different things. One being bad does not prove the other is good.

Here are some tests you can run...
Test the corner lights: Disconnect the red #30 wire from the #30 terminal of the flasher relay. Be careful not to let it touch anything metal or you will blow the #10 fuse. (You can remove the #10 fuse while you remove the wire and reinstall it when your are ready to test)
Touch the end of the red wire to the black/white wire connected to the VL terminal. This should power the front/rear LEFT turn signal lights solid; they will not flash. Confirm both front and rear are the same brightness.
Move the red wire to the black/green wire on the VR terminal. The front/rear RIGHT turn signals lights will turn on solid.
Repeat the tests with the parking lights ON.
This confirms the path from the VL and VR terminals to the corner lights are good and the corner lamps are grounded.
Reconnect the red wire to the #30 terminal.

Disconnect the blue wire at the KBL terminal of the flasher relay. Turn on the ignition (engine does not need to be running). Ground the end of the blue wire and confirm the turn indicator lamp in the speedometer turns ON.
Leave this wire disconnected and test the E-Flasher function. Only after you get things working normally, then reconnect this wire a test to make sure there are no changes.

The E-Flasher relay grounds via the hold down screw. Remove the flasher relay from its bracket and ground the backing of the relay using a jumper wire to a known good ground point. Retest the E-Flasher function.

If you haven't already tried, disconnect the E-Flasher switch end of the brown S wire and ground the wire to a good ground point to confirm it activates the E-Flasher relay.

If none of these tests result in a working E-Flasher it likely means the E-Flasher relay is bad.

Tue May 30, 2023 5:40 pm

I disconnected the S wire from the hazard switch and connected it directly to a good ground. The hazard switch is still blinking fast. Same as before. I tend not to want to give up, but this car is trying my resolve….. not sure how to test the 9 pin relay box is working as it should as it relates to the hazard lights. I think I understand you correctly that the 49a tab on the relay sends power to the front and rear bulbs just as it does when I activate my turn signals. I have power at 49a when I activate my turn signals, just not when I activate my hazard lights…. Is there something else that can cause this that I have not tested besides the hazard relay?

Tue May 30, 2023 5:48 pm

I also checked the ground on the blue KBL wire as well as
The ground for the relay box itself. All is good and hazards still blink fast with no turn signal lights working. Ughhhh..
Thank, it looks like it is time for me to pay a professional to figure this out….
Thanks again for all your input.

Tue May 30, 2023 6:12 pm

Darned! Was hoping it would be an easy fix for you.

Please do update on how it goes!!

Tue May 30, 2023 7:26 pm

LAPacman wrote: I think I understand you correctly that the 49a tab on the relay sends power to the front and rear bulbs just as it does when I activate my turn signals.
No, power for the four corner hazards comes out of VR and VL. In the hazard position 49a only provides a means for the light in the hazard knob to flash.

Have you cleaned all the terminal connections for fuse 8 yet? That is where the power for the hazard circuit comes from and in your pictures it appears your fuse block terminals are all quite grungy, safe bet the spring terminals that hold the fuses are just as bad too.