TheSamba.com :: View topic

Fri Aug 11, 2023 11:01 am

I have studied all the upgrade options for our 1987 Vanagon Westfalia 2.1 manual trans, with 128 k miles. At first I was going 2.2 rebuild, then Subaru 2.2 then Subaru 2.5 then PNW rebuilders of waterbox 2.3 then GoWesty 2.2, 2.3 then 2.45!

Then we studied the GW EFI! WOW, thought I was back in graduate school studying for my DR!

Then we discussed $3,000.00 for new heads and gasket as that is the typical problem after 128 k miles? Then we decided to spend $8,000.00 on complete, coolant, fuel, suspension and more, most of the work ourselves!

Sorry about the long story, but I am sure someone else is at any one of these stages! Reading many Samba posts, I did not really find this contemplating? Similar but dated!

So, after selling a bunch of other gear, we saved the $20k to seriously address our future with the Vanagon Westy! The thing is driving these days, most other vehicle drivers are heavy footed and impatient with a Vanagon style traffic flow! We have all sorts of road communications delivered our way; finger waved, horned and nearly forced off the road in the slow lanes! It is different when we bought the Vanagon in 1992!

We like doing the speed limit and pretty much drive in the right lanes! But the old 2.1 at original 90 Hp new, seems more like 70 Hp on a recent tune up.

Back and forth for years and we finally decided on a game plan!

Interested in the developments? We may continue the post, depending on interest, hopefully not banter, as our Vanagon Westy is now in a very very very top rated Vanagon Specialty Shop, getting reconstructive engineering!

It would be nice to hear from the Vanagon friends who have already been through this decision and where others are on the journey!

Keeping it friendly and educational.

K&K

Fri Aug 11, 2023 11:34 am

Following!

Really curious to see the stock WBX modded to the hilt

Fri Aug 11, 2023 11:44 am

Yes, please. Keep the story coming.

Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:25 pm

I have no axe to grind with GW. I am impressed by their commitment to the original vw wbx engine. The downside with their EF system is unless something has changed, they are the only ones that can support it. Not a problem persay, but it is limiting to a degree. They are not the only ones with proprietary systems. I recall one or two threads relating to their exprience with the GW standalone system.

Our shop installs and supports a couple brands of standalone systems. These are for off road use only. I'm not sure where you live as I post, but the Federal government has been cracking down on "Tuners". They are auditing main supplliers then going after the indpendent shops, and finally the end user.

Best bang for the buck gas or diesel is turbo charging. Makes a difference at altitude. Like your description, we are content to tool along at 68 mph and letting the world go buy. We use the turbo power certainly in the climbs. Look for a thread Better Water Boxer I believe. They are doing some pretty impressive stuff.

Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:49 pm

MarkWard wrote:
Our shop installs and supports a couple brands of standalone systems. These are for off road use only. I'm not sure where you live as I post, but the Federal government has been cracking down on "Tuners".

for what its worth, they have a CARB order and its 50-state legal

Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:04 pm

valvecovergasket wrote: MarkWard wrote:
Our shop installs and supports a couple brands of standalone systems. These are for off road use only. I'm not sure where you live as I post, but the Federal government has been cracking down on "Tuners".

for what its worth, they have a CARB order and its 50-state legal

That is good news and backs up my statement to their commitment to the WBX engine. Now if they provide the tune file and the software to access the ECU, that would be even better.

Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:07 pm

haha i wouldnt see that happening if its been "locked in" for the CARB approval...
i think its one or the other. open source, or emissions compliance...

Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:37 pm

There seems to be a plethora of ECU emulators. I don't imagine it would be so different that another tunable computer would be there for those of us who go for that shiz

Fri Aug 11, 2023 7:56 pm

Watching…

Just curious: What are you doing with your terrible old 2.1? :wink:

- Dave

Sat Aug 12, 2023 7:27 am

quote="dhaavers"]Watching…

Just curious: What are you doing with your terrible old 2.1? :wink:

- Dave[/quote]

Thanks Dave, we originally thought our motor was in above average shape! We religiously checked oil, coolant at each gas fill up as we both come from VW families! My first V-Dub Micro was a 1954! Kare’s family owned several 1959-1963 V-Dubs!

We wanted our engine to be rebuilt! We even said we could wait. Nope not an option, not how it works they both (the shop & GW) stated! We are still kind of bummed as we are doing this as precautionary and safety with our 36 year old Vanagon.

Just drove ‘er 4000 miles down from Alaska with very little effort, and a lot of “AWE” landscape and wildlife adventures!!!!!

The “shop” told us most people do not get the $1500.00 “core deposits back!!!,

I know our engine is in good shape for local driving, we were going 70 mph regularly! Not uphill, of course.

We are thinking of trying to keep the engine and have it separately rebuilt. This would be inconvenient and more cost, but our V-Dub minds say don’t waste a good motor! Especially if GW deducts for each push rod as it says in their core disclosures! Shop said most people are lucky to get half the core charge back!!

I think this core is worth more than $750.00 especially when you are paying $8500.00 plus for a new 2.7!! Plus the $3500.00 for an EFI!

All this said, we decided to do this and feel very lucky we sold so much of our STUFF that we have the funds now, not that we want to be frivolous!!!!

It will take 3-4 weeks to build the engine, We are now at week 4, but it is not done yet. The EFI has been finished for about a week after being on back order.

Much of our original maintenance this spring of coolant, fuel and injectors, distributor, wiring, coil, new AFM, ECU, all are now absolute ! So much of the spring parts expense is a loss!

Maybe we are making a stupid decision, yikes! K&K

Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:40 am

Very nice to see you here, we’ve been published together many times...

Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:50 am

Doesn’t hanging your spare in front of the radiator grills affect your engine temp?

Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:51 am

Mansispeed is probably the best bet these days, especially if you want YOUR core rebuilt. He does his own EFI system too, it's significantly cheaper and I belive it's more open source and tunable than the GW system. Plus the whole turbo option 8) https://www.mansispeed.com/

Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:04 am

Red Ryder wrote: Doesn’t hanging your spare in front of the radiator grills affect your engine temp?

We originally thought that to, but I put a wind indicator behind it and it was very, very active flow! The main thing is to get it far enough out front, so it “Eddie’s” around the tire! And also lower! If you look at our photos, the second spare is more than a foot plus away from the grill.

K&K

Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:09 am

E1 wrote: Very nice to see you here, we’ve been published together many times...

Thank you, maybe we should be more discreet, ha ha!
Maybe you should pm us so we know who you are? K&K

Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:20 am

MayorMcCheese wrote: Mansispeed is probably the best bet these days, especially if you want YOUR core rebuilt. He does his own EFI system too, it's significantly cheaper and I belive it's more open source and tunable than the GW system. Plus the whole turbo option 8) https://www.mansispeed.com/

Wow, I did see the Mansispeed option, we have purchased other items from them! Maybe more in the near future!

But we did not see any info on 2.7 motors applications? Do you have more information on how many 2.7 motors have been using the The MS-700 EFI KIT?

Also, they are back ordered for 8 weeks?

Thank you, K&K

Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:09 am

Hi, just to clarify : did you already pull the trigger on the 2.7, or are you still considering other options ?

Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:39 am

VicVan wrote: Hi, just to clarify : did you already pull the trigger on the 2.7, or are you still considering other options ?

Thanks, yes, pulled the trigger, looking for others who have a GW 2.7 and GW EFI and how it is going? Also, share with others who are considering similar upgrades. Sorry if we were not clear that we are 4 weeks into this and waiting for the motor. Yes, some of this is wobbly knees as to “what have we done”!!

Thanks again. K&K

Photo, at the shop!

Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:44 am

I've had the GW 2.45 and the GW EFI for a little over a year.
After 10,000 miles I'm pretty happy with both the engine and the EFI- the mansi EFI looked good, but not only am I in California, but I wanted a thoroughly tested locked down system- once the van is upgraded I don't want to fiddle with it- just drive it!
The 2.45 was a nice power boost from my 2.1, and the EFI has just been flawless- the power train is just like a more modern car- turn the key and go without worrying about it.
Another very nice feature of the GW setup is that it incorporates a knock sensor- the more powerful engines are much more sensitive to the octane rating than the 2.1 was- I can see on my scangauge when the knock sensor is adjusting my timing for lower quality gas or climbing a hill on a hot day- nice to know it is keeping the engine from damage (I find it very hard to hear audible pinging with the engine in the rear)
Good luck with your 2.7!
Dan

Sat Aug 12, 2023 12:02 pm

Dan,

Thanks for this info! Where did you have it installed?

We have 128,000 miles and the shop said our Transaxle is good, we already just replaced both axles with GW parts, so they suggested drive it! See if we like the Hp torque to gearing! Some say get a “taller” 3 & 4th gear? Any changes to yours!

Great to hear from upgraded GW’s!

K&K