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Mon Oct 09, 2023 11:41 am

I have a late ball joint beam front end with the three-bolt backer plate pattern.

I see quite a few front brackets available for these and also complete kits. If I bought the brackets for my sand rail, would I just use standard late model rotors? What years specifically? I'm guessing that the calipers would be the dual piston with the narrow bolt pattern with double bleeders, correct?

My trailing arms have been converted to use what I believe is front calipers from a later model beetle. Got a pair off Amazon for $118.00.

Just trying to save a bit of money!

Thanks, Dan

Tue Oct 10, 2023 5:44 am

Which wheel bolt pattern are you planning to run?

Tue Oct 10, 2023 9:53 am

racecougar wrote: Which wheel bolt pattern are you planning to run?

Four bolt to match the rear, not that it makes much difference... :)

I know that I can buy the 3-bolt caliper adapters for it and use stock 2-piston calipers like I have now on the rear axles, but not sure what rotors to purchase. They "may" be the later Super Beetle rotors, but have no direct information about it.

Thanks, Dan

Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:19 am

Dan_Lockwood wrote: racecougar wrote: Which wheel bolt pattern are you planning to run?

Four bolt to match the rear, not that it makes much difference... :)

I know that I can buy the 3-bolt caliper adapters for it and use stock 2-piston calipers like I have now on the rear axles, but not sure what rotors to purchase. They "may" be the later Super Beetle rotors, but have no direct information about it.

Thanks, Dan

The reason I asked is that it does make a difference if you're wanting to run the wide 5 pattern. I have no experience with the set up you're going with, so I'll recuse myself.

Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:34 am

racecougar wrote: Dan_Lockwood wrote: racecougar wrote: Which wheel bolt pattern are you planning to run?

Four bolt to match the rear, not that it makes much difference... :)

I know that I can buy the 3-bolt caliper adapters for it and use stock 2-piston calipers like I have now on the rear axles, but not sure what rotors to purchase. They "may" be the later Super Beetle rotors, but have no direct information about it.

Thanks, Dan

The reason I asked is that it does make a difference if you're wanting to run the wide 5 pattern. I have no experience with the set up you're going with, so I'll recuse myself.

I saw a YouTube video on a shop converting a newer Beetle to "look" more classic and they did that type of rotor setup.

I just found some, I believe to be accurate, information on my front end. EMPI makes a 3-bolt offset to the rear caliper bracket and I just ordered a pair off eBay for $72.00 shipped. They work with '73 and older Karmann Ghia front rotors and then use the common dual piston narrow bolt pattern calipers. I'll see what I can do for the rotors through my local jobber and probably just order another set of front calipers for $118.00. They are SOOO pretty all cad plated etc... :) These come with dual bleeders so they can be used on either side.

I appreciate your advice and replies.

I would like to apologize upfront for all of the soon to come posts about questions I have. This is a great forum and I do appreciate it very much!

Thanks again all, Dan

Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:06 am

No worries here.

Assuming you're referring to this style caliper, it should work just fine up front. I will say they are lacking when used in the rear, IMO. I've actually just ordered some 4-piston calipers for a '81 Toyota pickup that I'm going to swap into place of these.

Tue Oct 10, 2023 12:24 pm

racecougar wrote: No worries here.

Assuming you're referring to this style caliper, it should work just fine up front. I will say they are lacking when used in the rear, IMO. I've actually just ordered some 4-piston calipers for a '81 Toyota pickup that I'm going to swap into place of these.

Race Cougar, thanks for the picture.

My wife and I just moved to MI from O'Fallon MO. We moved there from Midland MI back in '02 for my work. I retired when I hit 70 the end of '19 and just had a new Shouse built here in Clare MI. I'm now lucky enough to have in floor hot water radiant heat in my 50'x56' with 13' ceiling workshop/garage. Also have a 2-post 10k# ALI certified lift. I use that thing for everything. I've had my zero turn lawn mower up on it to work on the mower pan and also used it to rebuild my side by side motor. Not having to bend over to work on things is a BIG help when you're 74!

Back to the thread.

I'm not totally committed to keeping the VW front calipers on the rear at all. I plan on modifying my trailing arms into a 2x2 with plenty of boxing going on. So making up new brackets for the new calipers would not be an issue. Post some pictures of your progress please.

One more thing about my workshop. In my previous life working, I was a machinery designer/sales person for our company making plastic's production machines. I'm quite good at AutoCAD 2D and had many of "my" home projects made up on our OMAX waterjet. So losing that when I retired was a big blow to my future projects. When I was settle in on what we were building, I order a Langmuir CrossFire Pro CNC Plasma table. I have Primeweld CUT60 plasma torch on it and the cutting table will allow for a 33"x48" cut. For the boxing plates on the trailing arms, I'll just draw them up and cut them on my plasma table. :) Haven't used it much yet for projects, but have made a couple wrenches for my nephew etc. All in all, quite reasonable in price. I have around $3,300 into it plus my plasma torch. When I sold my Miller and Lincoln welders in MO before I moved, I got enough to buy all new Primeweld TIG 225X, MIG 180 with an aluminum spoolgun and the CUT60 plasma torch. If you haven't heard about Primeweld before, look them up on YouTube. They get raving reviews and have a now questions asked 3-year warranty with free shipping back and forth. If you have questions, ask for Gene.

Sorry for rambling on and on and on...

Thanks again all for helping this newbie out so much!

Dan

Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:42 am

Sounds like you've got a great setup with plenty of tools and toys, Dan. That's pretty much a requirement when it comes to building/modifying these rails. :) I'm a newbie to VW's myself; I picked up this rail in July about a week after a bay opened up in my shop (can't have an empty bay in the shop! :lol: ). I bought it solely to learn a new platform.

I blew it all apart this past Sunday to begin fixing the previous owner's transgressions.

Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:46 am

I Use standard Karmen Ghia front rotors and calipers with aftermarket caliper mounts, think I got the caliper brackets from Moore parts, they use the same bearings as the type one ball joint. I understand that these disc brakes may be a stock type 1 item for some European model that come with disc brakes stock. Some time these are sold as kits but there all standard parts except for the bracket. The other option is ghia spindles then you don’t need the brackets and have dust covers. I modified my “thing” brake shields to work but many go without the shield .

I have front discs and type 3 rear drums on a heavy beetle and they work excellent.

Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:16 pm

dirtkeeper wrote: I Use standard Karmen Ghia front rotors and calipers with aftermarket caliper mounts, think I got the caliper brackets from Moore parts, they use the same bearings as the type one ball joint. I understand that these disc brakes may be a stock type 1 item for some European model that come with disc brakes stock. Sometime these are sold as kits but there all standard parts except for the bracket. The other option is Ghia spindles then you don’t need the brackets and have dust covers. I modified my “thing” brake shields to work but many go without the shield.

I have front discs and type 3 rear drums on a heavy beetle and they work excellent.

Thanks DirtKeeper,

I figured that I could piece together stock parts with the aftermarket caliper mounts. Always cheaper that way. Glad they're stock "standard" parts. As it will turn out, I will have one good caliper as a spare and the two new ones will go up front and I'll source new/larger calipers for the rear. Hopefully RaceCougar's new rear brakes will work for me as well. I'm sure when I do the mods to the trailing arms, new caliper mounts can be fabbed easy enough.

Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:43 am

Dan_Lockwood wrote: Hopefully RaceCougar's new rear brakes will work for me as well. I'm sure when I do the mods to the trailing arms, new caliper mounts can be fabbed easy enough.

Oh, they're gonna work! :) They just arrived last night. Now if I can just find time to work on this thing. There's a '65 C10, '73 Mustang, and a '91 Thunderbird SC in line ahead of it at the moment. :cry:

Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:46 pm

Race Cougar, very nice!

Would you guess that with the IRS rear end that if it had the stock 4-bolt rotors, the caliper would still be positioned in the same plane as with the early 5-bolt rotor?

Did you have a manufactured rear hub mount for these calipers?

I got my EMPI front 3-bolt ball joint caliper mounts today. The right side fits nice and squarely, but the left side has like a little casting crown on the spindle surface and the bracket rocks a bit. I think I can draw file the surface to true it back up in just a few minutes. They fit my calipers that I'm running on the rear, which are stock front calipers for the Beetle I'm guessing.

Your new calipers look like they will be powerful enough to stop without any issues. Can you list what you bought etc?

Thanks, Dan

Fri Oct 13, 2023 6:55 pm

Dan_Lockwood wrote: Race Cougar, very nice!

Would you guess that with the IRS rear end that if it had the stock 4-bolt rotors, the caliper would still be positioned in the same plane as with the early 5-bolt rotor?

Did you have a manufactured rear hub mount for these calipers?

I got my EMPI front 3-bolt ball joint caliper mounts today. The right side fits nice and squarely, but the left side has like a little casting crown on the spindle surface and the bracket rocks a bit. I think I can draw file the surface to true it back up in just a few minutes. They fit my calipers that I'm running on the rear, which are stock front calipers for the Beetle I'm guessing.

Your new calipers look like they will be powerful enough to stop without any issues. Can you list what you bought etc?

Thanks, Dan

I'm totally new to VW's, so I have no idea what a stock 4-bolt or 5-bolt caliper looks like.

I'll make mounts for these.

I had to file out the slides on my EMPI brackets; they're quality control is pretty awful.

My front calipers are VW Rabbit pieces. IIRC, I ordered them for a '79. I paired those with EMPI brackets, and I turned down a set of caliper slide pins for a '15 Jeep Grand Cherokee to fit.

The rear calipers that I will be installing are spec'd for the front of a '81 Toyota 4x4 pickup. I'll weld up mounts for those.

Wed Jul 23, 2025 5:35 pm

Howd the Toyota calipers work out for ya’ll?

Tue Jul 29, 2025 7:28 am

They've been great.

Sat Aug 02, 2025 7:41 am

What exactly did they come off of? Ive seen a couple posts that said an early 80’s pickup? But i think theres a couple variations of the caliper isnt there?

Mon Aug 04, 2025 5:06 am

The ones I bought were spec'd for a '81 Toyota pickup. They are the S12+8 calipers that were used on a number of vehicles. There are different versions, so you need to pick ones that match your rotor width.

An old pic from when I installed them:

Wed Aug 06, 2025 9:15 am

racecougar wrote: The ones I bought were spec'd for a '81 Toyota pickup. They are the S12+8 calipers that were used on a number of vehicles. There are different versions, so you need to pick ones that match your rotor width.

An old pic from when I installed them:

likes a pic

I've got a set waiting to be put on too. I'm actually excited to work on this, but this summer has been disappointing on so many levels and I have run out of ambition to work on any of my projects. Hoping I get a second wind soon. Ever since my Missouri trip I've been unproductive.

Wed Aug 06, 2025 9:35 am

[quote="ORANGECRUSHer"] racecougar wrote: The ones I bought were spec'd for a '81 Toyota pickup. They are the S12+8 calipers that were used on a number of vehicles. There are different versions, so you need to pick ones that match your rotor width.

An old pic from when I installed them:

likes a pic

I've got a set waiting to be put on too. I'm actually excited to work on this, but this summer has been disappointing on so many levels and I have run out of ambition to work on any of my projects. Hoping I get a second wind soon. Ever since my Missouri trip I've been unproductive.

that just happens, it'll come back around. dont stress about it , that only makes it worse & maybe you need to take a break anyhow.
wait a minute, who the hell said that?? what I meant to say was get your lazy ass up and get that shit done, were all busy and got stuff going on. slacker.
heh heh

Wed Aug 06, 2025 11:18 am

yeah, gets more frequent the older I get unfortunately.

Dan, have you had this thing out yet? Just curious.