TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:26 pm

1986 four speed van. Replaced the plastic ball ended shift lever on the side of the transmission, and the two plastic shift rod bushings today. The old ball had come off the lever.

Cant get all the gears, i.e. the front to rear shift rod coupling aint set right I think is my issue.

Have tried the Bentley procedure, 23 mm gap in the shift box etc...

I have first gear now in the reverse position (push shifter lever down and to left, and forward) and have third gear too. Have Neutral also, but cant locate 2nd or 4th or reverse.

I also noted the ball cup on the Tranny end of the shift rod has some wear,, the opening is a bit worn on one side, by maybe about 1/16th of an inch, other than that everything else seems ok.

Advice is needed please on how to best get the shifter rods at the coupling in correct position length and clocking wise. I did mark them when I took it apart, but that does not work. Tried clocking in both directions many times in small increments (like one or two splines), and played with the length too.
Just cant seem to hit it right

Is there something else that might be wrong, say in the tranny that might cause this?

I noted that when shift rod is full forward, such that the ball cup is full forward hitting the bushing on the tranny, that the ball nearly comes out of the cup, and tranny is in neutral. This dont seem right, could clocking of the shift rod be this issue?

Anyway I want to research this tonight, and try again in morning, I am kind of spent laying under the van for now.

Thanks in Advance for yiour advice.

Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:36 pm

Insert the shifter coupler so you can see a 1 to 2mm gap at the end of the slot.
Do not tighten it yet.

Transmission in neutral, shifter in neutral position.

Push the shift linkage assembly towards the passenger side, if the coupler is still round, the male rod will spin into the female coupler. Tighten the bolt, done.

Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:09 pm

The coupler and forward shift rod are a splined connection so you should really remove them completely to reclock them into the correct adjustment. But...if you just loosen the collar bolt (keeping the coupler and forward shift rod together) and snap a vice grip on the forward rod, you can now easily rotate and adjust it. A single spline of rotation makes a big difference so it's nice having a little more control with the vice grips. Be sure you're starting in neutral on the tranny and that the shift ball cup is all inline. You'll get it, it's just a total pain in the arse!

Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:09 am

It’s early here, so I may have missed it. When the transmission is in neutral, the ball of the lever at the transmission is pointed straight down or 6 o’clock.

Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:53 am

Along with the above advice, the fore-aft rod length adjustment should put the tab in the middle of the gate.

Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:05 am

uberaudi wrote: The coupler and forward shift rod are a splined connection so you should really remove them completely to reclock them into the correct adjustment. But...if you just loosen the collar bolt (keeping the coupler and forward shift rod together) and snap a vice grip on the forward rod, you can now easily rotate and adjust it. A single spline of rotation makes a big difference so it's nice having a little more control with the vice grips. Be sure you're starting in neutral on the tranny and that the shift ball cup is all inline. You'll get it, it's just a total pain in the arse!

The coupler is not splined, only the rod. If it hasn't been overtightened before, it will spin easily. I add antiseize in it too, for future service.

Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:19 pm

Just to cover all the bases, you do have the shift linkage bracket located on the correct side of the bosses on the transmission?
Picture below is of a Syncro transmission but same for 2wd. Note bracket is mounted on the forward side of tranny. Common mistake when putting back together is to install towards the rear.
(photo was showing new bellows split after only two years)

Also, IIRC the earlier transmissions had no bump-outs on the mount and VW sent out a service bulletin about adding a spacer between the bracket and the transmission to mount the bracket further forward. (basically a longer bolt with an extra nut serving as spacer)
Here's a picture of a later transmission with the bump-outs cast into case.
If your case doesn't have these beefier ears, then maybe the spacers were left off when reassembling?

EDIT:
OK I found a better picture to show the setup.
(Picture borrowed from penz0r)

Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:01 pm

MsTaboo wrote: Just to cover all the bases, you do have the shift linkage bracket located on the correct side of the bosses on the transmission?
Picture below is of a Syncro transmission but same for 2wd. Note bracket is mounted on the forward side of tranny. Common mistake when putting back together is to install towards the rear.
(photo was showing new bellows split after only two years)

Also, IIRC the earlier transmissions had no bump-outs on the mount and VW sent out a service bulletin about adding a spacer between the bracket and the transmission to mount the bracket further forward. (basically a longer bolt with an extra nut serving as spacer)
Here's a picture of a later transmission with the bump-outs cast into case.
If your case doesn't have these beefier ears, then maybe the spacers were left off when reassembling?

EDIT:
OK I found a better picture to show the setup.
(Picture borrowed from penz0r)

Thank you!! Great photo and description Ms Taboo. On my transmission the "bump out" for the rear rod bushing mount plate stands off only about 1/16th inch or maybe a tad less, so that must be the early type. Ill add some spacers.

As for the bushing mount, the plate (I have the late style bushing, no bellows) has a little bit of play in the mounting holes for the bolts to the the transmission, and the two bolts that hold the bushing retainers to the mounting plate also have a bit of play, I should probably try to push this assembly upwards as much as possible before tightening down so as to raise the bushing and hence the ball cup as high as possible. The play is in the holes, they are round, but do allow a tiny bit of clearance for the bolts.

Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:01 pm

MarkWard wrote: It’s early here, so I may have missed it. When the transmission is in neutral, the ball of the lever at the transmission is pointed straight down or 6 o’clock.

Thanks!

Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:03 pm

ALIKA T3 wrote: Insert the shifter coupler so you can see a 1 to 2mm gap at the end of the slot.
Do not tighten it yet.

Transmission in neutral, shifter in neutral position.

Push the shift linkage assembly towards the passenger side, if the coupler is still round, the male rod will spin into the female coupler. Tighten the bolt, done.

Thank You! We started with that 1 to 2 mm gap where the slot is, but started pushing the rods closer together as that seemed like the right thing to do, but evidently was not. I'll restart this procedure with the gap you suggest.

Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:07 pm

Two More Questions for You Experts....

1... The ball shift arm is straight down when in Neutral, with the shift shaft extended out from the tranny case, correct?

2... What are the positions of the ball shaft for the gears, forward, back how many spaces, shaft in towards case or out from case for each of the four gears plus reverse?
That will be helpful I think, but i cant find that info in the Bentely Manual.

Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:25 pm

At rest, moving the lever to the rear is 3rd, forward is 4th. From neutral, Push in some, towards the rear is first and forwards is second. From neutral push in til it seats and that is the reverse gate.

I could also be wrong. I’m sitting here imagining the backwards and forward movement.

Fri Oct 20, 2023 9:33 pm

ALIKA T3 wrote:
The coupler is not splined, only the rod. If it hasn't been overtightened before, it will spin easily. I add antiseize in it too, for future service.

You're totally right Alika. This whole time I thought they were a splined interface but the coupler isn't at all...it just looks like it sometimes, ha!

Fri Oct 20, 2023 9:38 pm

MsTaboo wrote: ]
Also, IIRC the earlier transmissions had no bump-outs on the mount and VW sent out a service bulletin about adding a spacer between the bracket and the transmission to mount the bracket further forward. (basically a longer bolt with an extra nut serving as spacer)
Here's a picture of a later transmission with the bump-outs cast into case.
If your case doesn't have these beefier ears, then maybe the spacers were left off when reassembling?

EDIT:
OK I found a better picture to show the setup.
(Picture borrowed from penz0r)

Bingo!

Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:17 pm

Still working on this. Have moved center coupler as suggested so about 1/16 inch gap is seen through the slot

Please see photos
In the position shown the tranny is in neutral. However the shift lever in the cockpit is in what appears to be 2 nd or 4 th gear. When cockpit lever is in neutral position I am actually in a gear

Note in photo at tranny that the shift lever cup is fully forward and the ball lever on tranny is angled forward. Also the tranny selector shaft is fully out, extended. I had assumed when ball lever is straight down that that was neutral, but evidently not.
In position shown in both photos she is confirmed in neutral ( started engine and released and let clutch pedal up, engine idles and van dont move). When I place cockpit shift lever in what is the neutral position ( where cockpit lever has lots of side to side play) and idle engine, the engine will stall when clutch pedal is let up ( I have brakes on). I cannot get cockpit lever into a 1 st or 3 rd gear position.

So how should I proceed from here?
Is position on tranny ball lever in photo correct for neutral? It certainly is not in any gear in this position shown.
I am very confused now

Thanks in advance for advice

Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:37 pm

Here is photo of tranny while in a gear. Tranny shaft is out, fully extended. Ball lever arm is pretty much straight down. My cockpit shift lever is in the neutral position with lots of side to side play. BUT the transmission IS in a gear as the motor will stall when clutch is released with brakes on.

Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:31 pm

zerotofifty wrote: Here is photo of tranny while in a gear. Tranny shaft is out, fully extended. Ball lever arm is pretty much straight down. My cockpit shift lever is in the neutral position with lots of side to side play. BUT the transmission IS in a gear as the motor will stall when clutch is released with brakes on.

I think your shift ball bracket isn't clocked correctly to the splined shaft on the tranny...somehow. There is a larger square notch on the top and bottom of that bracket that needs to align with the mating notch on the shaft. Some aftermarket brackets are made poorly enough that it may fit multiple ways.

Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:58 pm

Here are a couple pics in the correct orientation. I just so happen to have a van up on jackstands right now...go figure!

Ball lever large notches:

Shifter in neutral:

Second/fourth:

First/third:

Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:13 pm

I second Uberaudi, the selector ball in neutral is vertical, it's easy to check as the shifter shaft with move in and out of the transmission just by pushing by hand. Early transmission don't have a recall spring too btw.

The quality of parts is horrible these days, I have never replaced this selector ball assembly by a new aftermarket one for that exact reason, I only replace the plastic ball. I have plenty used VW ones from parted vans, I NEVER throw them away at the shop in the event I need one to replace a part with damaged splines. I encourage people to keep salvageable original parts like that...
Side note: shifter cup and selector ball often don't have matching diameters from one brand to another :evil:

Mon Oct 23, 2023 9:20 pm

what kind of lube are you all using?