TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sat Aug 24, 2024 11:54 am

As some of you have noted, I'm currently working with a few Eurovans. Excluding the 97 EVC that I intend to sell, which isn't at my house right now anyways, I've got 3 Eurovans, all with Auto-trans mounted to the 24v VR6 Engine. A 2003 MV Weekender, a 2002 EVC, and a 2003 GLS that I bought for $1000 as a parts van (its transmission is barely functioning).

I'm planning to move the nice 5 spoke VW wheels off the parts van to the EVC which has basic VW steelies that aren't in that great a shape, so it got me thinking about how I was gonna pull off the switch, and how I would eventually load the parts van onto a salvage tow truck down the road one day (it would need wheels). Having a van on blocks would be appealing to my neighbhood (2 of the vans park on the street) so that idea was out. Then the light bulb went off - Spare Tires (which are actually spare wheels). There will be some tire remounting as part of this swap but it's not super important to this thread for the moment (I'll probably have another one discussing the various tires and which ones should go on which van).

I pulled out all 3 spare tires/wheels from under each of the 3 vans. And, as I expected all are almost legal to drink.

The 2 spare tires off of the 2003 vans were manufactured in 2002 based on their DOT #s and the EVCs spare came off the factory line in 2005 (which is odd since the van was new in 2002 - will explore that story later).

All 3 are identical -- Michelin Energy MXV4 225/60 R 16 - the tires that came stock on the vans from the dealer. I believe that tire is no longer produced.

While the tread on all 3 tires is 100% at this point, I don't think any of these 3 tires would be safe to drive on for more than a VERY short trip to a mechanic if one had to use one. Given the remote places that owners like to take their vans, I'd call a tow truck before I'd drive on one of them for 100 miles if I was in the middle of nowhere in the west.

When I recently bought the 2002 EVC - it had tires on it that seemed good (based on tread depth and number of rotations), but they began to experience tread separation the following day after I started driving it home. The tires were 8 years old and had spent a lot of those 8 years just sitting in the California sun, not being driven.

If that can happen to 8 year old tires, I can only imagine what would happen to 20-22 year old tires.

thankfully none of these spares will stay in use as a spare when I'm done with the "swapping". They'll all end up on the Parts Van and eventually in the salvage yard, whenever I'm done with it.

One thing I've got to figure out, is if the "worst" of the 3 sets of tires I've got on these 3 vans (5 year old Toyo 235 60 R 16) will actually fit into the spare tire holder underneath the 2 vans I'll be keeping. I would think so, but the 235 tire is considerably larger than the 225s that were already pretty snug under there.

Has anyone already been down this road and gotten the larger 235 tire into the spare store storage area without modifications?

If it doesn't work out then I'll buy a couple of 215/65/R16 tires to use as spares for the 2 vans I intend to keep long term.

Safety First!

Sat Aug 24, 2024 2:17 pm

I have Kumho Crugen HT51 235/60 R16 104T XL on my van, on GW alloy wheels. Including an alloy spare. You'll need the GW oversize spare tire kit to pull this off.

It is worth noting that my full size spare tire cannot be lowered without some minor jacking of the rear of the van, due to the clearance issues caused by the trailer hitch. I keep a spare bottle jack in the van to overcome this problem.

kourt

Sun Aug 25, 2024 5:40 am

I found the same on my 2001 weekender. Original spare tire and rim. The rim had substantial rust as well. I removed it and keep an onboard slime emergency tire repair and inflator kit. Seems like many modern vehicles forgo the spare tire and follow a similar approach -- however, I've never encountered a flat (really? yes) and wonder how effective these kits are. I may acquire a new spare and refit it.

Sun Aug 25, 2024 2:52 pm

^^^ Regarding the spare tire on the 2002 EVC, which is oddly from 2005, ... in looking back through the records (which are 100% intact from date of sale), the original owner had a blowout in 2005 and purchased 1 tire. The van had 25K miles on it by that point so I would have thought they would have at least replaced 2 tires as a set ... but the invoice only shows one. Next full set came at 46,000 miles.

The 2002 EVC's spare tire is mounted to a painted steel wheel, same as the other four. So, I'm just guessing here, but assume they loaded the spare wheel on the van when the blowout occurred, and then bought a replacement Michelin Energy for the 5th rim and put it under the vehicle ... and there it's been for 19 years.

Could be wrong - but it's a story that at least makes sense.

Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:33 pm

When I bought my van in 2022 it was a fly-and-drive from San Jose, CA to Austin, TX. I literally got off the plane and the seller drove up to the airport with the van, I wired the money to him, and I was on the road.

I noticed the tires were a real fruit salad of brands, and the spare was date coded to 2001--original. Great. Gonna be an adventure!

Somewhere between Barstow and Needles I suddenly felt and heard thumping in the rear. The right rear tire had separated. The tread was intact, but there was a prominent, misshapen bump on the tread. I slowed down to 30 MPH and limped into a small town and pulled into the tire shop that defined the edge of town. Three guys were waiting. It was five minutes to closing. They put on a used tire. Whew! I didn't have to use that old spare.

The next day, same thumping, but now on the driver side rear tire had separated. Same type of separation. I limped into Albuquerque and found a tire shop--and another used tire. Still no need to use that sketchy spare.

That night, before bedding down in the poptop for the first time at a roadside camp in Muleshoe, TX, I ordered my new tires and they were waiting for me when I got home.

I had them trash the original spare and put one of my "new" used tires on the spare wheel until, about a year later, I upgraded that spare wheel to the same alloy and tire used on the rest of the van.

kourt

Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:37 pm

Kourt - that sounds very similar to my pickup in July of the 2002 EVC. I flew from NC to CA and then immediately drove 4 hours as soon as I took possession - From Walnut Creek CA to Truckee CA / Tahoe.

Felt a weird wobble in the steering when I exited the freeway at that night's camp spot - I was late, I was tired, and I thought it might just be bad side roads in Truckee (they do get tough winters). When I got back on the road at 4am the next morning - the wobble was still there even on the highway.

Actually drove a few hours on I-80 trying to figure out what the issue was (I was worried it was ball joints or CV axles). Finally pulled off in Winenmucca NV and found a small mechanics' shop with their bay doors open. A mechanic hopped in with me and within 60 seconds said "your've got bad tires."

Looked a the drivers tire and you could see the raised bump on the interior side of the tire - that was causing the wobble

Went down the street to a BigO Tires and they looked at the set of 4 and confirmed that the 8 year old tires were pretty much all beginning to separate.

30 hours later I was back on the road with fresh Load Rated tires. There wasn't much to do in Winnemucca - so I spent most of it just cleaning up the "new-to-me" van.

I didn't think to buy a 5th tire that day, however, which is how this thread got started.

Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:27 pm

Kinda funny to me that the EVC (based on the blank ext wheelbase panel van), which came with painted VW steelies, instead of the preium 5 spoke VW "mag" wheels, came with a matching (painted) spare wheel, whereas the GLS and MV Weekender, which got the premium wheels, came with the uber-basic unpainted steel spare.

Perhaps it was expected that drivers of the panel van models, no matter what final form it was (commercial or camper) would do a 5 wheel rotation instead of just holding the spare unused. Would make more sense overall, because the tires would last longer, and you'd ensure that you didn't end up with a 20 year old, never-used spare tire.

Those crazy Germans.

Sun Sep 28, 2025 5:59 pm

I checked the spare on my 2003 Weekender, and it has its original tire on a rusty rim. The tire was actually manufactured in November of 2001.

Looks like it might have once been used based on a little gravel in the tread, but otherwise appears to have no wear at all.

I have a newer painted rim arriving soon, but will need to decide what size to choose for the tire. My van is currently using 235/60-16R, and I suspect, based on the snug fit of the original, a 235 won’t fit the spare tire hanger without a spacer.

Given that I have no interest in rotating the spare with the runners, would it be terrible to have a 225 spare for a set of 235 tires?

Mon Sep 29, 2025 4:55 am

Tom Clark wrote:

Given that I have no interest in rotating the spare with the runners, would it be terrible to have a 225 spare for a set of 235 tires?

I look it as being no different than if the van was supplied with a donut spare, except that you actually have a full-sized tire that is a near match to the other 3 on the vehicle, not a mini tire that might cary a "do not exceed 25 mph" warning, to get you to the tire shop for repair or replacement of the main tire (since no one should drive without a spare). Eurovans don't have modern 4WD/AWD systems where even minute differences in tread depth can cause computer issues (one of the reasons I've seen quoted as to why replacing all 4 tires is sometimes required on modern AWD vehicles). Seems like the worst thing you could experience might be a bit of pull depending on which wheel position the spare is mounted to. Watching speed and driving with care, as hopefully we all always do, should be all the extra precautions required to counter the differences.

Regardless, you'll usually be diving to a tire shop for a repair or replacement of the main tire ... since you'll still need a spare - so you hopefully aren't dealing with the differences in dimensions for long.

Mon Sep 29, 2025 5:00 am

Tom, that's exactly what I did when I refreshed my van: 235s on the factory alloys, and a nice, fresh stock sized tire on a nice clean steelie for the spare. Fits well with the hitch, easy to remove when you need it on the side of the road somewhere.

It's a touch shorter than stock but there's no risk of damage - no limited slip differential or other mechanicals that depend on tire height/diameter. It might confuse the ABS but the worst thing that should happen is the ABS computer gives up.

Not perfect but no worse than a mini-spare. And a zillion times better than a 20 year old pre-failed tire on a rim with rusted-out lug seats.

Tue Sep 30, 2025 4:52 am

When I sold my EV, the original spare was junk. Cracks all over the tire. Since I sold it with a set of summers and a dismounted set of winters, hopefully the new owner took my recommendation to take at least one of the dismounted ones and mount it on the spare.

On the other hand, my 68 bus still has the original spare in it and for some reason it still holds air and no cracks in it (it's inside). I finally replaced the whole spare and saved the old one because you never know, people like nostalgia and having a perfect wheel and tire in good shape is something you put on a wall in some shrine of a garage.

Tue Sep 30, 2025 8:27 am

I recently got 5 new tires. I was 1500 miles from home when I saw steel wires showing on my rear tire. I ordered new ones that hour after switching that one out for the spare, Guadalupe mountains NP is pretty remote, so the tires were 3 days out. On the morning of my noon appointment for tire service, I found a baseball sized bulge on a front tire. I changed it for the steely spare and made it to 25 miles from Carlsbad NM when my alternator gave out. My car started 3-4 times at the tire shop and we rolled into AutoZone with 9.75 volts on the voltmeter (Thanks KBATTPO, who's no longer with us).

My repair involved lots of walking around Carlsbad to every FLAPS I could before settling on some C cell batteries from the dollar store. You can carve the graphite core into a roughly 12*2*3mm rectangle and shove that into the burnt up brush hole in the voltage regulator and drive about 2500 miles before you fix it correctly (I bought both another battery and the closest alternator that AutoZone had). When I soldered in new brushes, the graphite I'd made was less than 1.5mm shorter, mostly from where it wore itself concave around the slip rings)

What were we talking about? Oh yeah tires! Having a good spare is worth it! Mine are only load rated 99, all they could get me within a week in Carlsbad. But I weighed it shortly thereafter with all 4 of us, 4 bikes, all the camping stuff including 10 gallons of water and a full tank of gas:
Front axle was 3140 lbs
Rear axle was 2560 lbs
For a total weight of 5700 lbs

falken sincera sn250 a/s is rated for 1709lb, so I'm running them at 48-50psi. 1709*2=3418 Max load on the front axle so I still have 275lb of headway on the front axle or 135lb per front corner

Ideally I'd have 102 load rated tires but these ones handle well in the last 1.5 years and 10,000 miles (I run winters for 3-5000 miles in the winter).

Tue Sep 30, 2025 7:00 pm

Put it on 4 individual scales. Fill the gas tank with gas and sit in the drivers seat. Then look at the weight on the FL, it will surprise you. In the end, you will have a full tank of gas and need a driver no matter what. After that, add some passengers and gear.

Wed Oct 01, 2025 8:38 am

Are you saying that the front left wheel weight will be higher with just a driver than with adding the other 3 people and all our stuff,? I don't have a scale that can hold 500lb let alone 2000, let alone 4 of them.

I agree that load rating is important which is why I weighed it to make sure I'm okay. The difference between 102 and 99 is 165lb per tire. This means my headroom is 45% of what it would be if I had 102 rated tires (135/300=45%).

I can't find it anymore, but I remember Go Westy recommending 100 load rated tires for the camper. They said something about how a bigger tire could hold more weight or something dumb like that. I'm pretty sure the Michelin defender at 235/60-16 is rated at 100 and that has been a very popular tire in the Eurovan o sphere. Is that not fine anymore? Or is the extra 55lb been 99 and 100LR make or break?

/Edit: that size is available is 103 load rating in the defender 2

I drove my friend's 93 weekender with 94 LR tires, and it felt squiggly in anything but a slow straight line, but he drove it like that for a year before I finally convinced him to replace them.