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Mon Dec 02, 2024 2:53 pm

Hi Guys - I'm looking for some alignment help.

I've got a 2001 Eurovan. It has been lifted 1.5" and I imagine that affects the alignment specs?

My mechanic installed some new tires, and did some other front end work - he said it should get an alignment, but his machine was not good for it. So I took it to a local Tire place- I figure they do aligments all day long - and should be able to handle it.

They got it done relatively quickly - but this is the report I got back -

They claimed the front end was worn out - and couldn't be adjusted anymore. They also said something in the rear was frozen (rear tie rods, but I thought Eurovan did not have rear tie-rods).

Any advice on this...I don't want my new tires wearing unevenly...like the last pair.

Mon Dec 02, 2024 3:31 pm

Read my DIY Wheel Alignment thread to learn about the basics of wheel alignment.

Rear: The rear toe is adjusted by loosening the inner rear trailing arm mount bolts. There is about 1-2 cm of adjustment. Perhaps the mechanic was saying that your rear trailing arm bolts are seized.

Front: toe should still be easily adjustable.

Camber is adjusted by the large slotted cam outside of the upper ball joint. Look at yours and tell us if your set bolt (seen just above the top of the brake rotor below) is at either extreme end of the slot--that will tell you if the camber is actually set at its limit, or if the mechanic was lying and lazy.

Caster is adjusted by the lower control arm mount point, and has very little adjustment margin. It's not designed for a 1.5" lift.

Your front toe looks fine--that's the easy one, and the shop justified charging you for that. Honestly, the report looks like a standard "toe & go" alignment job, where they set the front toe, took your money, and sent you out the door. No adjustments were even attempted on front caster or camber. This is extremely typical for Eurovans--nobody wants to align them.

You would need to have fresh ball joints and bushings to claim that your suspension is not worn out, and even then the lift may be making an alignment impossible.

And now you know why I made the DIY Wheel Alignment thread.

kourt

Mon Dec 02, 2024 8:16 pm

thanks...
I actually do have new front ball joints - upper and lower.

I'll take a look at your DIY wheel alignment, and also take a look at those adjustment points, to see if they are really frozen.

The shop made it sound like they would adjust them - if I got them unstuck. I have 30 days to go back.

They just don't want to mess with things that are rusted/locked up - because if it breaks trying to loosen it, they don't have the means to fix it.

Mon Dec 02, 2024 11:40 pm

Find a dedicated suspension/frame/underbodyshop. The kind of place that can straighten out warped frames and unibodies after accidents, etc.

I took my 2002 to Tru Line (local specialty shop in Seattle) when I replaced the tires shortly after buying it, had them install bilsteins and align it. It had just been aligned at a Les Schwab (tire chain) the day before I bought it, but steering wheel wasn’t quite on center and it just felt .. off.

Got it back with everything spot on. Goes straight, super even tire wear, steers great, no torque-steer Tire shop didn’t bother to even out the front ride height (or weren’t capable?), didn’t sandbag the seats, and their results were all borderline this way and that. Specialty shop got it absolutely dialed. Asked my weight and my wife’s weight so they could weight the seats, and asked how we usually use it (city vs hwy, loaded or not, etc.), who usually drove, solo driver or with passenger, lots of questions. I will never get a tire shop aligment again on any car, especially not a weirdo car like a Eurovan.

Years ago that same shop worked magic on a VW Corrado I had, even shimmed the rear spindles to correct the non-adjustable rear camber and toe. Used their own alignment specs instead of factory, because they had developed a recipe for VR6 Corrados (!?) after looking at tire wear on some they had worked on. That job also turned out great. Tire shop previously did a poor job on that car.

Long story short, if you care about your van, only let people touch it who care about their work.

Sun Dec 08, 2024 6:57 am

thanks for the tips.
Temps hovering around freezing - I don't like working on cars in this weather.

I also don't have the inclination to try to align this myself...too many other things to do.

I talked to a tire shop near by - that a body shop recommended. I'm hopefully going to try them next week.

One question about alignments - I imagine when aligning - you are trying to hit certain specs that are spelled out in a manual or online somewhere. With my van being lifted - do these specs change? Is that somethign the shop should know about? Or do the specs come as a sort of chart - that you dial in based on the van height?

Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:04 am

Read the alignment repair guide from VW's erWin, which gives you charts that spell out how high the van's standing height should be. My guess is your van's standing height value is much larger than the chart value. That would mean the charts are just a guess or a vague reference for a lifted van.

To use the charts starting on Page 106, you must know what group you vehicle is in. My EVC is in Group 8.

kourt

Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:15 am

Thanks - how do you know what group your van is? I saw something online that mentions a sticker near the fuse box - but I don't see anything.

Sun Dec 08, 2024 2:02 pm

I have read that the dataplate is a sticker attached to the fuse box cover. Mine is long gone, but I understood most North America vans with poptops are group 5 (Weekender) or group 8 (EVC).

kourt

Sun Dec 08, 2024 2:15 pm

I think I'm missing my fuse box cover...I thought I had one - but had not really looked at that for a while. I'll have to check if my mechanic has mine...

Sun Dec 08, 2024 5:21 pm

The data sticker can also be found on the inside cover of the Maintenance Section of the Owners Manual (Sec 1.1 in later model vans).

The above sticker is from a 2003 GLS, showing it's part of group 5 (K5).

Sun Dec 08, 2024 5:55 pm

kourt wrote: Read the alignment repair guide from VW's erWin, which gives you charts that spell out how high the van's standing height should be. My guess is your van's standing height value is much larger than the chart value. That would mean the charts are just a guess or a vague reference for a lifted van.

To use the charts starting on Page 106, you must know what group you vehicle is in. My EVC is in Group 8.

kourt

Kourt ... the red text that is found in "sec 2.3.3 of Vehicles 3 and 8" that reads Eurovan Winnebago Camper (EVC) ... are those your personal annotations to the chart, with the long diagonal bar across the 4th row?

Sun Dec 08, 2024 6:35 pm

Yes, the decimalized angle measures and the big red strikethrough are my notations. The strikethrough is to ensure that information is not accidentally used. The fields directly below it are for the 24V VR6. The decimalized angles are there because my tools measure in decimals, not minutes of angle.

kourt

Sun Dec 08, 2024 9:16 pm

I've dug through my notes - and all old receipts from previous owners - and can't find the group type.

Then again - this has been adapted. It has been lifted 1.5" and they installed a pop-top. So I don't know if the orignal group type would even apply anymore?