TheSamba.com :: View topic - Engine/Transmission removed where and how would you start?

Tue May 13, 2025 8:17 pm

I know the engine will run, I had it running for a few seconds with some fuel in the float bowl but the carborator was crap. I know it needs all new seals etc... Were would you start with clean up and tear down? I was thinking about using a power washer and cover up all holes. Then I want to removal all the tins and maybe take off the heads. If I need to go further then I will be out of my league.
After initial clean up I will split the transmission and evaluate clutch, replace seals and bearings.

Thanks for the help. It was a milestone just getting it removed.

Tue May 13, 2025 9:52 pm

this is a 1977 FI rebuild. Just skip thru the areas that are not applicable.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=724313&highlight=1977

Tue May 13, 2025 11:42 pm

Did the engine have good compression and did it have good oil pressure? I would have gotten the engine running well and then driven it for a while before I yarded it out so I would have more idea what it needed.

Your engine and tranny don't look particularly oily. Some seepage is pretty much the norm, so I probably would not have pulled the engine just to replace the seals, but now that you have it out I would go ahead and do them. I would certainly look at the wear surfaces for the clutch and see what it needed there.

Oil leaks can be deceiving, I have owned a '73 Thing for nearly 20 years now and thought I would have to pull the tranny early on to fix the oil leaks that consistently left an oily spot on the ground where it was parked, but in all that time I have maybe added a cup of gear oil to the transmission as the loss is so slight.

Wed May 14, 2025 5:25 am

Wildthings wrote: Did the engine have good compression and did it have good oil pressure? I would have gotten the engine running well and then driven it for a while before I yarded it out so I would have more idea what it needed.

Your engine and tranny don't look particularly oily. Some seepage is pretty much the norm, so I probably would not have pulled the engine just to replace the seals, but now that you have it out I would go ahead and do them. I would certainly look at the wear surfaces for the clutch and see what it needed there.

Oil leaks can be deceiving, I have owned a '73 Thing for nearly 20 years now and thought I would have to pull the tranny early on to fix the oil leaks that consistently left an oily spot on the ground where it was parked, but in all that time I have maybe added a cup of gear oil to the transmission as the loss is so slight.

I did compression test on 3 cylinders and they were all about 110-120. The cylinder 3 I could not test because the threads on the spark plug hole were bad at the top and the tester wasn't very long. I will need to clean up those threads. It is oily at the bottom, I suspect it was slinging oil from at least the push rod tubes. I need to remove the gas tank and fix or replace because it has pin holes. That was another reason to remove. I need all new gas hose, and gas venting repairs. The 72 has no engine access panel, I could stand working in the cramped space.

I think I will take a gentler approach and remove the heavy build up and just brush it clean instead of power washing. More work but less clean up.

THanks @SGKENT for the link

Wed May 14, 2025 6:14 am

Show a close up CLEAR picture of the center intake manifold. It looks....odd.

Ray

Wed May 14, 2025 7:46 am

raygreenwood wrote: Show a close up CLEAR picture of the center intake manifold. It looks....odd.

Ray

It is definitely odd, I think home made by the PO. It will be replaced but I haven't decided if I will spend the extra money on dual carbs or replace that manifold and get a single progressive. I am still on my learning journey.

Wed May 14, 2025 8:48 am

poundman wrote: raygreenwood wrote: Show a close up CLEAR picture of the center intake manifold. It looks....odd.

Ray

It is definitely odd, I think home made by the PO. It will be replaced but I haven't decided if I will spend the extra money on dual carbs or replace that manifold and get a single progressive. I am still on my learning journey.

Uh...yeah. Its a home made, welded box manifold for using a center mounted progressive.

You don't want to do that (center mounted progessive...with or without that center manifold).

Go with injection of twin carbs.

Ray

Wed May 14, 2025 8:53 am

poundman wrote: raygreenwood wrote: Show a close up CLEAR picture of the center intake manifold. It looks....odd.

Ray

It is definitely odd, I think home made by the PO. It will be replaced but I haven't decided if I will spend the extra money on dual carbs or replace that manifold and get a single progressive. I am still on my learning journey.

That particular manifold design will hold liquid fuel in it exasperating the off idle lag, so find yourself one of the later aluminium manifolds that is designed to not pool any fuel in it. Shown below is what you want, shown with the bottom up of course. You can likely find one in the Samba classifieds.

If you want to get really fancy, figure out a way to raise the manifold an inch or so and then bend the tubes to match, this will make it so any fuel that drops out of the air flow in the cold tubes will be more willing to quickly move towards the heads. To bend the tubes just whittle down a tree branch to fit in the cylinder head end of the tubes and mount the branch in a vise. Now just use a judicious amount of force to bend each tube. You of course will need clearance between the air cleaner and the lid of the engine compartment so check carefully as you move along with this, I can't judge the height and clearance of your setup from here. Supplying the carburetor with some form of heated intake air is a good idea as well, read up on the cookie tin idea as it is pretty simple.

I have a brace running between the top most bolt on my engine case and a carb mounting bolt to keep the carb from rocking due to the pull of the throttle cable.

Wed May 14, 2025 9:23 am

Hate to be the guy that farts in church but no way i would risk just putting some unknown engine in your bus.

Nothing sucks worse than having to take it right back out and apart

50 years ago is a long time.

Even worse, someone has been in there.

Take it apart, clean it up and re-seal,
Then you will have a leak-free engine, the peace of mind knowing it’s right, and the knowledge of how to build it.

If it’s all hunky dory in there you’ll only need to pop for a gasket set and a few seals.
If there’s anything wrong, you’ll get to fix it.

Everyone has to start somewhere.

Did a little how-to years ago and it’s in my sig.

At least insert the stripped plug hole..

Wed May 14, 2025 12:48 pm

some Gunk foamy engine cleaner. Good place to start.
And new input shaft seal, output seals, shifter hockey stick seal for trans. The stuff that's problematic when it is bolted back in place. Change the throw-out bearing whether it needs it or not for same reason.
Oil cooler seals for the same reason. The Usual Suspects.
Engine? seals in both ends, pushrod tube seals. Don't forget the two crankshaft O rings, one hiding under the fan mount hub, the other wedged in the flywheel recess.

Wed May 14, 2025 1:04 pm

new pilot bearing.

Thu May 15, 2025 11:55 am

I would skip the power washer,( because I don't have one.)
But pull all the tin , and clean it up. My oil cooler looked like a dryer filter. Might be critters living in there.
Pull the heads and barrels. Then you can inspect the bottom end and cam.
Your compression was pretty good. I borrowed a cylinder hone from my laps.
Lapping valves is easy too.
Don't know what to tell you about the bad sp thread.
With the engine and trans out, you have a perfect test run stand for before install.

PM me if you really want to stick with the Progressive. I have the whole setup you can have for shipping.
Although I would really try to talk you out of the idea.

Thu May 15, 2025 3:22 pm

Willin wrote: I would skip the power washer,( because I don't have one.)
But pull all the tin , and clean it up. My oil cooler looked like a dryer filter. Might be critters living in there.
Pull the heads and barrels. Then you can inspect the bottom end and cam.
Your compression was pretty good. I borrowed a cylinder hone from my laps.
Lapping valves is easy too.
Don't know what to tell you about the bad sp thread.
With the engine and trans out, you have a perfect test run stand for before install.

PM me if you really want to stick with the Progressive. I have the whole setup you can have for shipping.
Although I would really try to talk you out of the idea.

Thanks for the advice. I might take you up on the offer to get things running in the short term, and later move to dual carbs. Will send you a PM on samba .

Thu May 15, 2025 3:23 pm

timvw7476 wrote: some Gunk foamy engine cleaner. Good place to start.
And new input shaft seal, output seals, shifter hockey stick seal for trans. The stuff that's problematic when it is bolted back in place. Change the throw-out bearing whether it needs it or not for same reason.
Oil cooler seals for the same reason. The Usual Suspects.
Engine? seals in both ends, pushrod tube seals. Don't forget the two crankshaft O rings, one hiding under the fan mount hub, the other wedged in the flywheel recess.

Thanks, it would be so great if there was 1 kit to order for this stuff but I highly doubt that is the case.

Thu May 15, 2025 8:15 pm

Clean up and tear down started. I am glad I took it out because I am finding all kinds of stuff.

Nest and mud between cylinder 3 and 4

I broke off one of the fasteners for engine tin near the intake on cylinder 1. I think I can drill out and retap.

There is no thermostat and no flaps.

No flaps

Fuel pumps nears cleaning and rebuild. tons of gunk in the intake

Question, what is this air vent at the back of cylinder 1?

Thu May 15, 2025 9:16 pm

Quote: Fuel pumps nears cleaning and rebuild. tons of gunk in the intake

Bill at Sparxwerks rebuilds those. He also has some new ones

https://www.sparxwerks.com/

Thu May 15, 2025 10:23 pm

poundman wrote: timvw7476 wrote: some Gunk foamy engine cleaner. Good place to start.
And new input shaft seal, output seals, shifter hockey stick seal for trans. The stuff that's problematic when it is bolted back in place. Change the throw-out bearing whether it needs it or not for same reason.
Oil cooler seals for the same reason. The Usual Suspects.
Engine? seals in both ends, pushrod tube seals. Don't forget the two crankshaft O rings, one hiding under the fan mount hub, the other wedged in the flywheel recess.

Thanks, it would be so great if there was 1 kit to order for this stuff but I highly doubt that is the case.

Buy an engine engine gasket set to get the pushrod tube seals and lots of gaskets, orings, and other odds and ends.

https://www.busdepot.com/029198009

The seals you will need to buy separately. I prefer the Sabo flywheel seal if it is available.

You should consider peening the case around the oil galley plugs if the original pressed in plugs have not yet been replaced with threaded pipe plugs.

Thu May 15, 2025 11:05 pm

That final image?, the soft-seal from below, is the hot air passage to the former dual-carb air cleaner assembly. It sent hot air upwards for warm-up drivability.
It rubbed up against the main box that held the air cleaner paper element, which then split off to the two separate carbs. The left (driver's) side one also featured the idle circuit & had a manifold that split that mixture between the two carbs........ yeah. Complex. Kinda.

Fri May 16, 2025 5:19 am

Thanks @wildthing. I appreciate the link. Also, what is the purpose of peening? Is it to help ensure the pressed in plugs don't pop out? I will have to look at mine. I do know this was a replacement or refurbished engine, not the original.

Fri May 16, 2025 5:21 am

timvw7476 wrote: That final image?, the soft-seal from below, is the hot air passage to the former dual-carb air cleaner assembly. It sent hot air upwards for warm-up drivability.
It rubbed up against the main box that held the air cleaner paper element, which then split off to the two separate carbs. The left (driver's) side one also featured the idle circuit & had a manifold that split that mixture between the two carbs........ yeah. Complex. Kinda.

Thanks, I figured it was something like that. I assume when people replace the older carbs they just leave it as is? Not much ability to reuse for a new air cleaner setup.