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Sat Jul 19, 2025 7:39 am

fknmovin60 wrote: Westified wrote: In Miami my mechanic for my Vanagon Westy is charging $175.00/hr but told me he is going up to $230/hr. .... previously worked on Vanagons when he was at a VW dealer. $230 per hour for a VW dealer tech to work on your Westy is high?...sounds like a good deal.

"Miami's cost of living being 21% higher than the national average"
and he is increasing his rate by about 25% to keep up with increased costs
Eat some humble pie, and be thankful, that he is still wiling to work on it for that price.

Westified wrote: He has had his own shop for years.
He must be doing good work, correct?

Westified wrote: I think I got sticker shock on the time he charged for removing and replacing my windows for a windows out paint job.
So, he removed all of your windows, for you to get a good paint job, and reinstalled all of the glass with the old seals, or did he put new ones in? The front door seals can be a real pain, especially the vent window seals

Westified wrote: I did put in Jalousie windows on the center windows and I helped hiim. I also put sliders in the rear quarter windows.
How did the Jalousie window install go...how good is their fit?
Did you install the sliders or did he... the cabinet window is a real bear of a job, let alone aftermarket sliding windows...they are a tad bit big

Yes as I said Miami is expensive, also inflation has been 30% from 5 years ago, rampant money printing is to blame for that. The price of new cars/trucks is shocking. I think it would have been better if he gradually increased his rates over time, not a 25% shocker. He is a good and meticulous mechanic who installed my FAS 2.0 NA engine and did a great job. I have used him for about 7 years now. I like it that he lets me assist and be in the garage while he works. I also order a lot of the parts we use because I do a lot of research to see what fits and the quality.

To answer your questions, I provided new window seals(german when available). He did the front windows and yes the vents were difficult and he said so several times. I had him put sliders in the rear quarter windows and they look great. I had him punch out that plywood piece on the outer part of the cabinet by the window on the drivers side. This made access possible, not easy but possible. I helped him remove some of the windows. He did point out it took him and a glass guy 9 tries to get the slider in on that side behind the cabinet. The other side only took 3 tries.

Maybe I am to hard on him, I am very particular and have done a lot of mechanical work my self in the past (a backyard mechanic, literally). I have replaced a clutch and exhaust in a 1968 Triumph TR250 (my favorite car of all time) never should have sold it. Owned 2 1968 Land Rovers for hunting and camping in the Everglades. Replaced entire brake system, clutch, head gasket, exhaust gasket, carburetor and exhaust. Have owned this 1984 Vangon since 1987 and have done extensive work on it, replacing fuel lines, coolant hoses, AC system, entire kitchen out, install lithium battery, interior lights and more.

Plus the paint job had numerous aggravations it is back in the paint shop, causing this project to last 3 months, during which I got food poisoning. Coupled with it now being hot as hell here, I just got burned out. I am 77 and thankful I can still work on cars and thankful for a good mechanic. At this point in my life I would rather be using the van than fixing it.

What part of the country are you from sighting labor rates?

Sat Jul 19, 2025 8:07 am

Westified wrote: Coupled with it now being hot as hell here,

Yeah man, but it's a Wet heat! :lol:

Not many folks around here will work on Vanagons (or even recognize one). Pretty much one (Affordable German) that really has expertise (and a wrecking yard too) on them. I haven't had mine in there in quite a while so I'd *guess* his rates are in the $160-180 range these days based on past work, but that's a WAG only. He pulls Vanagon work from around the state due to shortage of available Vanagon mechanics.

Sat Jul 19, 2025 9:54 am

West Coast of Florida.

Sat Jul 19, 2025 10:07 am

zerotofifty wrote: blyhigh wrote: FWIW - Just had my snapped in half alternator pivot bolt replaced in Benton, AR. Shop rate was $130.

What they charge you for the snapped bolt repair?

$150. But he went and got the bolt and had it waiting when I was towed in. Young air-cooled guy. Lucky to find him.

Sat Jul 19, 2025 11:54 am

Westified wrote: fknmovin60 wrote: Westified wrote: In Miami my mechanic for my Vanagon Westy is charging $175.00/hr but told me he is going up to $230/hr. .... previously worked on Vanagons when he was at a VW dealer. $230 per hour for a VW dealer tech to work on your Westy is high?...sounds like a good deal.

"Miami's cost of living being 21% higher than the national average"
and he is increasing his rate by about 25% to keep up with increased costs
Eat some humble pie, and be thankful, that he is still wiling to work on it for that price.

Westified wrote: He has had his own shop for years.
He must be doing good work, correct?

Westified wrote: I think I got sticker shock on the time he charged for removing and replacing my windows for a windows out paint job.
So, he removed all of your windows, for you to get a good paint job, and reinstalled all of the glass with the old seals, or did he put new ones in? The front door seals can be a real pain, especially the vent window seals

Westified wrote: I did put in Jalousie windows on the center windows and I helped hiim. I also put sliders in the rear quarter windows.
How did the Jalousie window install go...how good is their fit?
Did you install the sliders or did he... the cabinet window is a real bear of a job, let alone aftermarket sliding windows...they are a tad bit big

Yes as I said Miami is expensive, also inflation has been 30% from 5 years ago, rampant money printing is to blame for that. The price of new cars/trucks is shocking. I think it would have been better if he gradually increased his rates over time, not a 25% shocker. He is a good and meticulous mechanic who installed my FAS 2.0 NA engine and did a great job. I have used him for about 7 years now. I like it that he lets me assist and be in the garage while he works. I also order a lot of the parts we use because I do a lot of research to see what fits and the quality.

To answer your questions, I provided new window seals(german when available). He did the front windows and yes the vents were difficult and he said so several times. I had him put sliders in the rear quarter windows and they look great. I had him punch out that plywood piece on the outer part of the cabinet by the window on the drivers side. This made access possible, not easy but possible. I helped him remove some of the windows. He did point out it took him and a glass guy 9 tries to get the slider in on that side behind the cabinet. The other side only took 3 tries.

Maybe I am to hard on him, I am very particular and have done a lot of mechanical work my self in the past (a backyard mechanic, literally). I have replaced a clutch and exhaust in a 1968 Triumph TR250 (my favorite car of all time) never should have sold it. Owned 2 1968 Land Rovers for hunting and camping in the Everglades. Replaced entire brake system, clutch, head gasket, exhaust gasket, carburetor and exhaust. Have owned this 1984 Vangon since 1987 and have done extensive work on it, replacing fuel lines, coolant hoses, AC system, entire kitchen out, install lithium battery, interior lights and more.

Plus the paint job had numerous aggravations it is back in the paint shop, causing this project to last 3 months, during which I got food poisoning. Coupled with it now being hot as hell here, I just got burned out. I am 77 and thankful I can still work on cars and thankful for a good mechanic. At this point in my life I would rather be using the van than fixing it.

What part of the country are you from sighting labor rates?

You stated the reason for the jump in labor rates with your mechanic almost exactly in your post.

As you note, cost of living...inflation...has gone up ~30% in the past five years. Private businessmen much like large companies, absolutley hate to raise prices.
This is because even if you sell or manufacture something the public needs and cannot get elsewhere....they may just do without it ....and you lose.

They can absorb a few percents without raising prices...say 5%...to keep the client base stable and on the hook. But at some poit if it goes too high they have to charge more and pass it on to the client.

This is where that "transitory inflation" bullshit came from. Really..truly...if it is/was just transitory...a year or two and no more than 10% rise....they can swallow it and hopefully when things stabilize next year its back to normal. But it CANNOT erase profit/margin 100% or it cannot be sustained.

If your business is the first to raise prices to keep up with inflation....you lose...because clients go elsewhere cheaper fast. Likewise, if you are the last to raise rates....you have already been losing for a long time and its a shock to your clients....who have short memories.

A correctly run business (if you beleive the macro-economics books)....should have an average (if not bare minimum) of 18% with about a 23% peak....of clear profit after all bills are paid.

To those that think this is a lot...its average. You will not make the average every quarter or every year so if you are having an average of 18-23% margin ...and then next year is 10% and then in that year you lose a machine or tool that causes you to have to make an unexpected invetment....well that 10% may now be "0". So keeping margin up in this minimum range helps to paper over that one bad year every few years.

My point....is that if you take his current $175 and hour and multiply by 30% inflation.....you get right at $227.50...of right at the $230 he is jumping up to.

Labor cost.... unlike just plain profit on a widget that someone mass produces...must reflect the cost of living you operate in because the labor IS the product. Ray

Sat Jul 19, 2025 12:55 pm

CPI over the past 5 months has been 26% but more than half of it was 21-22 bounce back from Covid. If you are still adjusting your business prices 3 years after lift, go do something else.

Money printing isn’t the cause of inflation, that’s a stale conservative meme, second only to “ let’s return to the gold standard”

Sat Jul 19, 2025 1:11 pm

raygreenwood wrote:
You stated the reason for the jump in labor rates with your mechanic almost exactly in your post.

As you note, cost of living...inflation...has gone up ~30% in the past five years. Private businessmen much like large companies, absolutley hate to raise prices.
This is because even if you sell or manufacture something the public needs and cannot get elsewhere....they may just do without it ....and you lose.

They can absorb a few percents without raising prices...say 5%...to keep the client base stable and on the hook. But at some poit if it goes too high they have to charge more and pass it on to the client.

This is where that "transitory inflation" bullshit came from. Really..truly...if it is/was just transitory...a year or two and no more than 10% rise....they can swallow it and hopefully when things stabilize next year its back to normal. But it CANNOT erase profit/margin 100% or it cannot be sustained.

If your business is the first to raise prices to keep up with inflation....you lose...because clients go elsewhere cheaper fast. Likewise, if you are the last to raise rates....you have already been losing for a long time and its a shock to your clients....who have short memories.

A correctly run business (if you beleive the macro-economics books)....should have an average (if not bare minimum) of 18% with about a 23% peak....of clear profit after all bills are paid.

To those that think this is a lot...its average. You will not make the average every quarter or every year so if you are having an average of 18-23% margin ...and then next year is 10% and then in that year you lose a machine or tool that causes you to have to make an unexpected invetment....well that 10% may now be "0". So keeping margin up in this minimum range helps to paper over that one bad year every few years.

My point....is that if you take his current $175 and hour and multiply by 30% inflation.....you get right at $227.50...of right at the $230 he is jumping up to.

Labor cost.... unlike just plain profit on a widget that someone mass produces...must reflect the cost of living you operate in because the labor IS the product. Ray

Ray, I am puzzled why you feel you need to give me a lesson in economics. This thread was about labor rates in Florida for VW Vanagons. You might not have noted I am a CPA and MBA that has owned and run 2 business for over 35 years in Miami. I understand not only economics but customer psychology. I know first hand about profit margins required and labor costs in Miami. You missed my point entirely. You do NOT raise prices 30% in one shot unless you want to lose clients. That inflation has happened over a 5 year period. Also, you need to be aware of the area prevailing rates other shops are charging, your competition. If Porche dealerships are charging $230/hr labor rate, that have a much higher overhead than an independent shop and you decide to charge the same either you have a unique skill or provide exceptional quality work. If not you will lose your client base.
Brad

Sat Jul 19, 2025 1:22 pm

khughes wrote: Westified wrote: Coupled with it now being hot as hell here,

Yeah man, but it's a Wet heat! :lol:

That's also just from last decade's perspective. It's downright chilly from next decade's perspective. :shock:

Sat Jul 19, 2025 1:52 pm

Westified wrote: I think it would have been better if he gradually increased his rates over time, not a 25% shocker.

right, so he could fucking starve while "gradually raising his rates? because you know, insurance, electricity, food etc didn't go up one penny....

get over it.

here is what I tell people...pay for it or don't. if you don't....someone else will. and guess what? prices aren't "going down" ever again..... Why? Re-read the last sentence.

Talented people are in short supply and good mechanics/techs are sick and fucking tired of working on 20, 30, 50, 80, 100k+ cars and getting paid like it's a bicycle.

so, pay for it or go without. those are your options.

Sat Jul 19, 2025 6:18 pm

My this thread went off the rails with hostility. I at least I posted the rates for Miami. By the way inflation didn’t happen in one year. It was gradual over this time frame. that is my point. If I raised my clients rates 30% in one year I would have lost most of my client base. Maybe you don’t mind paying a 30% price jump per year. One has to weigh the cost/benefit and consider options. That is what competition is all about, now if it comes to a point that people can gouge us because our vehicles are old, we have options. Find someone else to do the job or just get rid of the vehicle, as it becomes a money pit.
Skillsateurocarsplus what is your point. You feel I am wrong in discussing labor rates, that is the point of this thread. I don’t see you providing this information. I have paid my mechanic tens of thousand of dollars and even helped him and gave him information on how certain things are done when is is something new to him. I think we have a good relationship. Bottom line it is a business transaction and I treat him with respect.

Sat Jul 19, 2025 9:13 pm

I was looking forward to seeing the various labor rates.

these are the ones quoted in this thread so far

$190
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: fknmovin60 wrote: What you guys seeing for Vanagon shop labor rates in Florida?

not going to help but I'm in CT and at 165/hr for cars up to 10 years old and 190/hr for anything 10 and older IF I take it in. Porsche....well somewhere in the middle of both of those numbers added together

$230
Westified wrote: In Miami my mechanic for my Vanagon Westy is charging $175.00/hr but told me he is going up to $230/hr.

$130
blyhigh wrote: FWIW - Just had my snapped in half alternator pivot bolt replaced in Benton, AR. Shop rate was $130.

MarkWard wrote: $160 hour Palm Beach County. Straight time, no flat rate. Mainly supporting existing customers. We have found it is not profitable taking in unknown to us classics.

relative indicator
Abscate wrote: Just go to any local Midas muffler shop. Look at the labour rate and add50%

Volvo $335
Abscate wrote: And grump Volvo owners like me pay $335 but he did give me a $20 discount for having a 1999 p80

Sun Jul 20, 2025 1:39 am

Increasingly so, labour rates become meaningless when working on a vintage car. Your competition isn’t another shop, it’s the fact that instead of working on your clapped out T3 with crappy parts , your mechanic can do three brake and strut changes on a Ford Taurus with known parts and no seized hardware.

Book rates just don’t apply so you pay rate times actual,which you take on trust unless you sit and watch ( at which point a higher rate applies per above :D )

I’m thankful I’ve got a Euro specialist within walking distance I can drop my old Volvos on and pick them up in a 1-3 days. He’s at $130 an hour on Long Island
We have a lot of independents here as well as mobile guys , too.

Sun Jul 20, 2025 4:24 am

Van Cafe Service Center in Fort Collins, CO is $165 an hour.
https://vancafeservice.com/

Sun Jul 20, 2025 5:28 am

Quote: Talented people are in short supply and good mechanics/techs are sick and fucking tired of working on 20, 30, 50, 80, 100k+ cars and getting paid like it's a bicycle.

And have you been to a good bike shop lately? Not cheap either! :lol:

Sun Jul 20, 2025 8:36 am

Westified wrote: I think it would have been better if he gradually increased his rates over time, not a 25% shocker.... He is a good and meticulous mechanic who installed my FAS 2.0 NA engine and did a great job.

Before this last job he did for you, when was the last time you had him do work... previous months or years? If years, maybe that is why the increase shocked you... he cold have been keeping up with the inflation rate "X" amount per year, etc...

Westified wrote: Maybe I am to hard on him, I am very particular and have done a lot of mechanical work my self in the past (a backyard mechanic, literally).

Your backyard has no inflation OR overhead!

Westified wrote: a point that people can gouge us because our vehicles are old was he gouging you or keeping up with inflation? which is it?!?!

Westified wrote: I like it that he lets me assist and be in the garage while he works. I also order a lot of the parts we use WHAIT... WHAT...he lets you help, AND he lets You supply the parts. SH!T sounds like he bends over...literally for you

After what I was quoted for labor...I am eating humble pie right now, maybe even a second slice ... I will NOT trust mobile "mechanics" to work on my cars...I have heard from too many friends that when a concern arises after their work, they got ghosted, and the "mechanic" never showed back up to fix the mistake or problem.

Sun Jul 20, 2025 9:34 am

fknmovin60 wrote: Westified wrote: I think it would have been better if he gradually increased his rates over time, not a 25% shocker.... He is a good and meticulous mechanic who installed my FAS 2.0 NA engine and did a great job.

Before this last job he did for you, when was the last time you had him do work... previous months or years? If years, maybe that is why the increase shocked you... he cold have been keeping up with the inflation rate "X" amount per year, etc...

Westified wrote: Maybe I am to hard on him, I am very particular and have done a lot of mechanical work my self in the past (a backyard mechanic, literally).

Your backyard has no inflation OR overhead!

Westified wrote: a point that people can gouge us because our vehicles are old was he gouging you or keeping up with inflation? which is it?!?!

Westified wrote: I like it that he lets me assist and be in the garage while he works. I also order a lot of the parts we use WHAIT... WHAT...he lets you help, AND he lets You supply the parts. SH!T sounds like he bends over...literally for you

After what I was quoted for labor...I am eating humble pie right now, maybe even a second slice ... I will NOT trust mobile "mechanics" to work on my cars...I have heard from too many friends that when a concern arises after their work, they got ghosted, and the "mechanic" never showed back up to fix the mistake or problem.

I provided detailed information on labor rates and work performed in Miami and yet you don’t provide the city in Florida you are from, your labor rates (the purpose of this discussion) and have only 10 posts since 2006.

Sun Jul 20, 2025 10:02 am

Cape Coral Florida... was quoted $250 per hour strait time.. haven't had time to post much... I'm always working to feed my family.

Sun Jul 20, 2025 10:49 am

fknmovin60 wrote: Cape Coral Florida... was quoted $250 per hour strait time.. haven't had time to post much... I'm always working to feed my family.

Is that a VW dealer or an independent shop, what Vanagon and engine do you have? Sounds like dealer pricing. Looking at cost of living statistics Miami is 10% higher than Cape Coral.

A premier Cadillac dealership in Miami as of June 2025 charges a labor rate of $250/hr and then discounts it by $75.00 with a competitive labor rate discount bringing the rate down to $175/hr. They provide free customer pickup and delivery, a lovely air conditioned waiting room with coffee, snacks, water and TV. They have a beautiful showroom and excellent service advisors. The work they have done on 2 of our Cadillacs, one of which was a limited production(16,000 prduced) antique. Their work has been excellent.

Just stating labor rates, it seems they are all over the place for our Vanagons. We are sort of a captive market since not all mechanics are willing to work on antiques and it depends on where you live and competition.

My VW mechanic is an independent shop not a dealership. He worked for a VW dealership in the past. I assisted him with the Jalousie window install because it takes 2 people, one inside lining it up and one outside holding the window. It is installed like the T2 westies with screws through the window opening lip. I purchased new jalousies, not used ones. My next step is to water test them to see if they sealed properly.

Sun Jul 20, 2025 11:08 am

Abscate wrote: Book rates just don’t apply so you pay rate times actual,which you take on trust unless you sit and watch ( at which point a higher rate applies per above :D )

Increasingly, for vehicles like Vanagons, this seems to be the norm and honestly, it has to be. For vans that live here in AZ, you can do fine at flat rate numbers (IF you're good naturally) for labor since corrosion is not really much of an issue (unless you're a mountain dweller).

There are two BIG caveats that are now common though - labor rates have to factor in doing jobs, say 1.1 - 1.5 times per repair on average (could be worse now, will be later) due to the shit parts we all live with, IF you provide any warranty besides "until you leave the lot". Second, you have to deal with 30-40 years of Primitive Pete repairs by numerous POs. None us us fit that category, of course, but...

Some of the van pics you midwesterners and northeasters post for which corrosion is a major structural component...wow, those give me nightmares. Can't imagine quoting jobs on some of those vehicles. Being crazy costs money in this land, and only crazies drive these dinosaurs. We all resemble that remark :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sun Jul 20, 2025 11:29 am

Westified wrote: raygreenwood wrote:
You stated the reason for the jump in labor rates with your mechanic almost exactly in your post.

As you note, cost of living...inflation...has gone up ~30% in the past five years. Private businessmen much like large companies, absolutley hate to raise prices.
This is because even if you sell or manufacture something the public needs and cannot get elsewhere....they may just do without it ....and you lose.

They can absorb a few percents without raising prices...say 5%...to keep the client base stable and on the hook. But at some poit if it goes too high they have to charge more and pass it on to the client.

This is where that "transitory inflation" bullshit came from. Really..truly...if it is/was just transitory...a year or two and no more than 10% rise....they can swallow it and hopefully when things stabilize next year its back to normal. But it CANNOT erase profit/margin 100% or it cannot be sustained.

If your business is the first to raise prices to keep up with inflation....you lose...because clients go elsewhere cheaper fast. Likewise, if you are the last to raise rates....you have already been losing for a long time and its a shock to your clients....who have short memories.

A correctly run business (if you beleive the macro-economics books)....should have an average (if not bare minimum) of 18% with about a 23% peak....of clear profit after all bills are paid.

To those that think this is a lot...its average. You will not make the average every quarter or every year so if you are having an average of 18-23% margin ...and then next year is 10% and then in that year you lose a machine or tool that causes you to have to make an unexpected invetment....well that 10% may now be "0". So keeping margin up in this minimum range helps to paper over that one bad year every few years.

My point....is that if you take his current $175 and hour and multiply by 30% inflation.....you get right at $227.50...of right at the $230 he is jumping up to.

Labor cost.... unlike just plain profit on a widget that someone mass produces...must reflect the cost of living you operate in because the labor IS the product. Ray

Ray, I am puzzled why you feel you need to give me a lesson in economics. This thread was about labor rates in Florida for VW Vanagons. You might not have noted I am a CPA and MBA that has owned and run 2 business for over 35 years in Miami. I understand not only economics but customer psychology. I know first hand about profit margins required and labor costs in Miami. You missed my point entirely. You do NOT raise prices 30% in one shot unless you want to lose clients. That inflation has happened over a 5 year period. Also, you need to be aware of the area prevailing rates other shops are charging, your competition. If Porche dealerships are charging $230/hr labor rate, that have a much higher overhead than an independent shop and you decide to charge the same either you have a unique skill or provide exceptional quality work. If not you will lose your client base.
Brad

A couple of things:

1. Sorry but I got your point (your query actually)....but you missed mine even when I carefully explained it.

2. Your next post mentioned "hostility". Sorry to disagree but the only hostility I sense comes from you.

3. You ask/state that you are puzzled as to why I felt the need to give you a lesson in economics.

Well, if you are a CPA with an MBA (which sorry to say and MBA is VIRTUALLY meaningless in my experience)....I should not have had to give an explanation and YOU should not have had to ask the question you did about the rise in rates.

If you want to dig around about me....I go under my real name and you can find my abbreviated resume on linked in. Since my last update to that....I have been into and done work in over 4400 factories, plants, shops and facilities around the world over the past 35 years with production spanning automotive, electronics, medical devices, aerospace components, white goods and general commodities.

Few people I meet have as wide of a range of perspective into costs, materials and processes for a lot of services and manufacturing.

Bluntly, put most SMALL businesses.....that offer a quality service or product....do not raise or lower their prices to chase the price of competing local businesses. To do so generally ends in the failure of that business.

Chasing lower prices to keep up with the joneses.....if you are able to do that and survive, it's an advertisement that your prices were too high in the first place. If you lower prices to match competition....and you cannot make minimum profit because of that....it means that the lower price structure is not compatible with your business.

It may be overhead costs (rent/mortgage, equipment costs, electrical/gas/water/sewage/waste stream cost, labor cost, poor processes, excessive marketing costs or lack of marketing, lending/financing cost and usually some of each of these)....but most SMALL businesses have little/less control over this total cost stack up than would a midsized, large or chain business.

It's also possible (probable) that your guy has been waiting ....probably too long....to raise his prices, hoping for the economy and supply chain to stabilize and just could not wait any longer.

By the way, my crack about the MBA comes from my experience in thousands of plants. Far too many people get an MBA coming right out of undergrad with "0" real world experience. The MBA programs have a habit of telling their charges that...."you don't NEED experience with the job at hand. We are teaching you how to MANAGE those that do".....which is why too many MBA's I have watched fail Miserably because you cannot manage a process you do not understand the parameters of.
You have to know SOMETHING about the process or you will not know when those you command make the wrong decision.

I have had to fire about 1/4 of the younger MBA's I have had to work with because they all made ome very similar monumental error.
They did not have the job experience to understand that the decisions they were making violated engineering processes, cost money and/or time, in some cases violated laws or CFR's or plain just did not get the job done.....and the main error was being too arrogant to understand that their MBA did not bestow this experience.

Older workers who had manufacturing or business experience and years later went back and got their MBA.....can be an excellent combination.

My point.....don't try to impress people by telling them you have an MBA. Impress them with what you get done.....first. Ray