TheSamba.com :: View topic - Possible transaxle issues in Southern Utah

Yesterday 12:09 pm

MarkWard wrote: Forgetting the clutch, if you are running down the road in 4th, how easy is it to pull out of gear without using the clutch. Off power it should shift into neutral without effort.

Mark, I'll try this when back on the road. Will report back when I have Internet again.

I might have to get a StarLink setup.

Yesterday 12:52 pm

pbrown wrote: The issue of getting into 1st can typically be resolved by cycling the clutch pedal and trying again...

If an extra pump or two makes it shift better then that may suggest some air in the line. The pumping compresses the air to temporarily restore good action.

You can easily do a down & dirty clutch hydraulic bleed if you're willing to spill some fluid on the ground.

Yesterday 12:56 pm

Precisely my thought about the clutch… plus maybe some grit and/or need for cleaning and lube back there.

It’d suck to short this trip if it turns out to be simple — which in my experience is mostly the case.

I’d say “almost always” but that’d most assuredly jinx our buggy. :lol:

Yesterday 1:21 pm

There's nothing that pbrown has said that would indicate that it isn't a failing clutch master cylinder. I'm not saying it IS the MC, but I don't see any reason to take it off the table.

The 3/4 slider failing does not affect 1st gear.

When I had a slider fail it had no symptoms other than briefly sticking in gear two different times. No noises, no strange feel, nothing.

Yesterday 1:27 pm

^^^

And if for any reason they’re headed towards Tonopah, Nevada, I have a brand-new slave I’d front them.

We’re at a campground 40 miles due north of Tonopah this weekend, there’s no signal there but have PMed the OP with my info.

Back to signal Monday or maybe Tuesday, new poptop tent finally going in.

Yesterday 1:48 pm

Thinking a little more. I have seen clutch slave cylinder pistons at the end of travel. The piston is bottoming out in the cylinder. This gives a much harder pedal feel and make shifting more difficult. The cross shaft could be worn enough that the piston bottoms out. You can see the piston with the boot pulled back.

A temporary fix would be to extend the pushrod. There are a few ways you could do this. It would allow you to continue on.

Personally the couple times I’ve had a serious symptom, I turn around and head home. Both times it was the right choice for us. The closer to home the less of a problem for me for a few reasons. I tend to listen to our van when it speaks to me.

Yesterday 1:57 pm

We’re going to continue on and keep a close eye and ear out.

Yesterday 1:59 pm

There can be variations in the slider hub failure details and these can result in variations in the shifting behavior and more.

I've seen some with a single crack all the way to the outer perimeter but still in one piece that seemed to get harder to shift when the tranny got hot.
I guess from heat the crack may open up or the part might distort such that sliding is impaired until it cools down.

Sometimes the hub eventually breaks into 2 or more pieces and a smaller piece may dislodge and cause other problems, possibly catastrophic.

Other things may be going wrong separately with the tranny, shifter, or the clutch system and again result in variations in the symptoms.

Anecdotally I have heard of a lot of failures that first presented while a secondary driver was operating the van.
I wouldn't blame the secondary driver as the root cause but perhaps a role in the timing of the presentation of the failure sequence that was already developing.

Mark

Yesterday 3:13 pm

Here is the 3/4 hub from our syncro.

It was completely assembled still and fell apart upon disassembly. No noise, no shifting issues. I was fortunate to be in it for another reason. Had it flicked some parts or pieces it would have been a much different story.

Yesterday 3:35 pm

The symptoms described sound to me like a dragging clutch that is not fully releasing. The clutch master cylinder and the slave cylinder can both fail internally. Others have chimed in above about the clutch actuating lever, etc.

I can't be categorical about this, but I'm 99% sure that the problem is a dragging clutch and not a failed or failing transaxle. As Mark Ward has suggested above, try shifting through all the gears with the engine turned off. If this test shows no resistance to the shifting, then the problem is the clutch.

Having said that, you would then have to determine which part is more likely to have failed. Neither the master nor the slave is an easy R and R on a Syncro, but the master is, I think, a bit easier to R&R. The slave nuts and bolts have poor access complicated by rust in the rust belt.

If you are DIYing this repair, have a look at these links:

https://shufti.blog/2014/06/21/vanagon-syncro-clutch-slave-cylinder-replacement-adventure/

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Don't forget that the hole in the end of the clutch pedal assembly (where the clevis and pin go) can become elongated to the point the clutch fails to fully release, as seen in this pic:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2329451.jpg

Yesterday 4:38 pm

Possibly worth mentioning that one can indeed shift these things without using the clutch. It's a technique best learned before you actually need it but it can be quickly mastered if it keeps you moving on the road.

Yesterday 4:54 pm

Ahwahnee wrote: Possibly worth mentioning that one can indeed shift these things without using the clutch. It's a technique best learned before you actually need it but it can be quickly mastered if it keeps you moving on the road.
Yep, a valuable lessen I taught myself at 17yo, in a 66 Chevy van with a three on the tree gear shift.

It proved it's value a few years later when I lost a clutch plate spring while traveling between San Clemente Ca. and Concord Ca. all those years ago.

I still use it today in my type1 cars all the time, just to keep up on the practice.

Yesterday 9:28 pm

?Waldo? wrote: There's nothing that pbrown has said that would indicate that it isn't a failing clutch master cylinder. I'm not saying it IS the MC, but I don't see any reason to take it off the table.
The 3/4 slider failing does not affect 1st gear.
When I had a slider fail it had no symptoms other than briefly sticking in gear two different times. No noises, no strange feel, nothing.

I had a clutch MC fail internally on my 16" Syncro Joker on the way back from Syncro Safari - 300+ mile drive. Fast double pumping the clutch pedal (at the top of the stroke) every shift got us home. However, this was required for every shift in every gear (and yes I did practice my clutch-less shifting on that trip!).

If the OP can shift into reverse and 2nd without issues then it would seem to indicate something else - like the 3-4 slider.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to try the quick pump-up of the clutch pedal to see if it helps, and to narrow down the potential problem; but I would be wary of shifting without the clutch if there was a suspected bad 3-4.

Best of luck pbrown!

Today 8:20 am

If bleeding could solve it, the clutch would be “softer”.
Harder clutch could be a cross-shaft problem.

Search “solo clutch bleed”.
No point doing anything else when bleeding is only 15minutes.

Old synchros will have more trouble with an Underperforming, dragging clutch.

Bleed 1st. :wink: If not the main problem it may help “just a little” to restore a “little more” release.

I’m in the Moab area, pretty far from Capitol reef.

If you tip the van steep nose-down you can peek at the drain plug.
I’ve done it.
Something like 25degrees.
I have a pic on TheSamba backing up a steep embankment. Maybe search “steep grunt”. Id do it but cant get search to work.
If drain magnet is clean you can have better confidence in driving it.

Today 8:35 am

I’m leaning toward a hydraulic issue.

Yesterday, while starting up a hill, I tried to downshift to 3rd. I could not. I lost speed to tried 2nd. Failed as well. I pulled over to the shoulder and was able to start in 1st from stopped. Things were normal after that.

I’m in Escalante for three nights. I’m going to try and source a master and slave at a later stop.

Thanks all,

Patrick

Today 8:55 am

Can you go under the van & measure the amount that the slave moves?

If it moves the proper distance (after bleeding) there may be nothing to gain from changing parts.

Sorry I don’t know the distance, my van has an internal (Jetta etc) slave. If someone posts the distance it would be kind to explain.
(Pic !! ) how that distance was measured to end up with the same number.

Measure distance with slow clutch push, and fast push. That may tell you something about the master. Test that when driving too?

Today 11:03 am

Problem could be something as simple as loose hardware at slave cylinder.
Seems you had some trouble with the slave before. Are all the bolts tight (including the support bracket)?

EDIT: here's the earlier post -
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

When my clutch MC failed (no external leaks at MC, no leaks at slave, full reservoir) the clutch pedal felt soft - a couple quick pumps at the top of the stroke provided just enough pressure to change gear and then pedal would go soft again as pressure bled internally around a bad seal.

Today 11:09 am

Howesight wrote: ...and the slave cylinder can both fail internally.

The slave can have air in it, or it can reach the maximum/minimum of its range of motion, but the only hydraulic failure mode of the slave is for it to leak. It cannot 'fail internally' without leaking. The master, however, has an internal seal with fluid on both sides. If that seal fails, the master can stop functioning properly without any leaking. That difference between the two is an important diagnostic tool for anyone who doesn't change both at the same time.

MsTaboo wrote: If the OP can shift into reverse and 2nd without issues then it would seem to indicate something else - like the 3-4 slider.

Their most recent post shows that they could not downshift into 2nd. They might not have used reverse enough to notice reverse having issues. Regardless, the fact that 1st has been an issue all along, shows that the issue is almost certainly not the 3-4 slider. Additionally, the 3-4 slider is not serviceable aside from a full rebuild. It is just simple good sense to pursue the dragging clutch potential first because it is far more likely, and because it is both simpler and far less expensive to fix.

Today 11:09 am

If a master cylinder is suspected of failing without leaking you can sometimes diagnose this by observing the fluid in the reservoir. If it rises slightly when you depress the clutch pedal that suggests that the check valve inside the master is failing.

Today 5:09 pm

Following for updates~!

And, I'll share this short story.

2017, near Saskatoon, my clutch began taking almost on the bottom. The transmission would shift into and out of all gears but it was distinctly obvious the clutch was taking almost at the bottom of the pedal. The problem was a leaky Slave Cylinder that bleeding did not help. It would suck air on the rebound.

A local guru on the west side of town installed a new Slave and we were on our way (a Friday thru Monday morning wait for the Slave).