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Mon Nov 24, 2025 4:56 pm

When installing a new axle and tube to a 1965 swing axle, when checking how many gaskets (shims) to use under the flange, should the plastic daisy be installed dry or lubed with gear oil? Also, can you check the tightness of the tube without the axle being installed, or does it matter?
Thanks

Mon Nov 24, 2025 6:34 pm

Daisy installed. Wet or dry.
I usually calculate shims with axle uninstalled. Drop it in on final assembly.

Mon Nov 24, 2025 6:44 pm

Sambamon wrote: ...should the plastic daisy be installed dry or lubed with gear oil?
It shouldn't make a big difference either way, but a light coat of oil wouldn't hurt.

Quote: Also, can you check the tightness of the tube without the axle being installed, or does it matter?
It's actually easier to do the gasket setup before installing the axles...less weight makes for a better 'feel' for the movement of the tube.

And if you need a finer adjustment than the gaskets in the kit will allow, you can make some up from manila file folders. They're available in a few different thicknesses, .011", .014" & .025". Then after you get the right combo of gaskets, coat both sides of each one with a thin coat of RTV sealer prior to final assembly.

Tue Nov 25, 2025 6:13 am

Dougy Dee wrote: Daisy installed. Wet or dry.
I usually calculate shims with axle uninstalled. Drop it in on final assembly.

Thanks Dougy Dee. On final assembly do you use RTV sealer between the gaskets or install them dry? I have heard mixed opinions..

Tue Nov 25, 2025 6:21 am

rcooled wrote: Sambamon wrote: ...should the plastic daisy be installed dry or lubed with gear oil?
It shouldn't make a big difference either way, but a light coat of oil wouldn't hurt.

Quote: Also, can you check the tightness of the tube without the axle being installed, or does it matter?
It's actually easier to do the gasket setup before installing the axles...less weight makes for a better 'feel' for the movement of the tube.

And if you need a finer adjustment than the gaskets in the kit will allow, you can make some up from manila file folders. They're available in a few different thicknesses, .011", .014" & .025". Then after you get the right combo of gaskets, coat both sides of each one with a thin coat of RTV sealer prior to final assembly.

Thanks Rcooled. Much appreciated. I have had different opinions on gasket sealer. some say install the gaskets dry, some say put sealer only between the flange and top gasket, and others say put sealer on both sides of all gaskets. It seems to me if you put sealer on both sides, even a thin coat, you are changing the thickness of the gaskets thus the tube will be looser?

Tue Nov 25, 2025 12:42 pm

Sambamon wrote: It seems to me if you put sealer on both sides, even a thin coat, you are changing the thickness of the gaskets thus the tube will be looser?
When I say 'thin', I mean THIN. Just smear it on with your finger. If using black RTV, you wanna be able to see the gasket material thru the sealer. Once the retainer plate is installed (nuts torqued to 14 ft. lbs. in a 'star' pattern), applying RTV to both sides of each gasket (try to limit it to 3 per side) should've added only about a few thousandths to the total thickness.
When initially dialing in the dry gaskets, allow for just the slightest bit of friction in the axle tube's movement to account for the sealer. The tube's axial play shouldn't be any more than .008" when fully assembled.

Tue Nov 25, 2025 1:14 pm

rcooled wrote: Sambamon wrote: It seems to me if you put sealer on both sides, even a thin coat, you are changing the thickness of the gaskets thus the tube will be looser?
When I say 'thin', I mean THIN. Just smear it on with your finger. If using black RTV, you wanna be able to see the gasket material thru the sealer. Once the retainer plate is installed (nuts torqued to 14 ft. lbs. in a 'star' pattern), applying RTV to both sides of each gasket (try to limit it to 3 per side) should've added only about a few thousandths to the total thickness.
When initially dialing in the dry gaskets, allow for just the slightest bit of friction in the axle tube's movement to account for the sealer. The tube's axial play shouldn't be any more than .008" when fully assembled.

Thanks rcooled. Another question (if I can ask it properly) When I have my side gear sitting on the bench with the slot for the axle facing at 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock and I insert the axle into the slot between the fulcrums, when the axle is standing perfectly straight up (verticle) I can rock it from 12 to 6 o'clock smoothly, but if I lean the axle over a bit from verticle to either side and try and move it from 12 to 6, it kind of binds. Is that normal?
Thanks again..

Tue Nov 25, 2025 1:46 pm

Sambamon wrote: rcooled wrote: Sambamon wrote: It seems to me if you put sealer on both sides, even a thin coat, you are changing the thickness of the gaskets thus the tube will be looser?
When I say 'thin', I mean THIN. Just smear it on with your finger. If using black RTV, you wanna be able to see the gasket material thru the sealer. Once the retainer plate is installed (nuts torqued to 14 ft. lbs. in a 'star' pattern), applying RTV to both sides of each gasket (try to limit it to 3 per side) should've added only about a few thousandths to the total thickness.
When initially dialing in the dry gaskets, allow for just the slightest bit of friction in the axle tube's movement to account for the sealer. The tube's axial play shouldn't be any more than .008" when fully assembled.

Thanks rcooled. Another question (if I can ask it properly) When I have my side gear sitting on the bench with the slot for the axle facing at 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock and I insert the axle into the slot between the fulcrums, when the axle is standing perfectly straight up (verticle) I can rock it from 12 to 6 o'clock smoothly, but if I lean the axle over a bit from verticle to either side and try and move it from 12 to 6, it kind of binds. Is that normal?
Thanks again..

Yes that's normal, because when it's disassembled the shaft may not be in exactly the right spot in the fulcrums, so it binds. But when assembled it will stay in the right spot so there is no binding. You can kind of test this on the bench by moving the shaft in or out slightly and turning it. The binding will disappear.

I agree with the other advice on the paper shims. Once you torque the flange nuts, the thin layer of gasket maker will squish and not add much thickness.

HOWEVER: the ring itself might be puckered at the stud holes, perhaps from the nuts being torqued too tight at some point. The puckers will cause the ring to not lay flat against the paper gaskets/transmission body. You need to check that and fix them if needed. I fixed a couple of mine using a short piece of steel as a dolly, and a few firm taps with a body hammer.

One other thing from personal experience: when you're torquing the flange nuts to 14 ft lbs, torque them gently several times, with maybe 30 minutes or more in between. The gaskets and goo will squish slightly when you torque the nuts and after it sits for a little while the nuts will not be properly torqued anymore. Do this gently, in a star pattern each time. Eventually you'll get to the point where the nuts no longer move at 14#. That's perfect. Fourteen is not very tight, so you need to make sure the 'squish' is gone so that you END UP at 14#. Torquing to 14 one time and forgetting about it will not be good enough.

Edited to add: I used Gasgacinch on both sides of both paper gaskets, but if I had to do it over, I would use Permatex Aviation. Gasgacinch is good but it's really thin, and I don't think I got all the puckers completely fixed because I have a microscopic occasional drip on one side. The Aviation would be a bit more forgiving because it's a little thicker. For whatever that's worth. :D

Tue Nov 25, 2025 6:03 pm

aquifer wrote: Sambamon wrote: rcooled wrote: Sambamon wrote: It seems to me if you put sealer on both sides, even a thin coat, you are changing the thickness of the gaskets thus the tube will be looser?
When I say 'thin', I mean THIN. Just smear it on with your finger. If using black RTV, you wanna be able to see the gasket material thru the sealer. Once the retainer plate is installed (nuts torqued to 14 ft. lbs. in a 'star' pattern), applying RTV to both sides of each gasket (try to limit it to 3 per side) should've added only about a few thousandths to the total thickness.
When initially dialing in the dry gaskets, allow for just the slightest bit of friction in the axle tube's movement to account for the sealer. The tube's axial play shouldn't be any more than .008" when fully assembled.

Thanks rcooled. Another question (if I can ask it properly) When I have my side gear sitting on the bench with the slot for the axle facing at 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock and I insert the axle into the slot between the fulcrums, when the axle is standing perfectly straight up (verticle) I can rock it from 12 to 6 o'clock smoothly, but if I lean the axle over a bit from verticle to either side and try and move it from 12 to 6, it kind of binds. Is that normal?
Thanks again..

Yes that's normal, because when it's disassembled the shaft may not be in exactly the right spot in the fulcrums, so it binds. But when assembled it will stay in the right spot so there is no binding. You can kind of test this on the bench by moving the shaft in or out slightly and turning it. The binding will disappear.

I agree with the other advice on the paper shims. Once you torque the flange nuts, the thin layer of gasket maker will squish and not add much thickness.

HOWEVER: the ring itself might be puckered at the stud holes, perhaps from the nuts being torqued too tight at some point. The puckers will cause the ring to not lay flat against the paper gaskets/transmission body. You need to check that and fix them if needed. I fixed a couple of mine using a short piece of steel as a dolly, and a few firm taps with a body hammer.

One other thing from personal experience: when you're torquing the flange nuts to 14 ft lbs, torque them gently several times, with maybe 30 minutes or more in between. The gaskets and goo will squish slightly when you torque the nuts and after it sits for a little while the nuts will not be properly torqued anymore. Do this gently, in a star pattern each time. Eventually you'll get to the point where the nuts no longer move at 14#. That's perfect. Fourteen is not very tight, so you need to make sure the 'squish' is gone so that you END UP at 14#. Torquing to 14 one time and forgetting about it will not be good enough.

Edited to add: I used Gasgacinch on both sides of both paper gaskets, but if I had to do it over, I would use Permatex Aviation. Gasgacinch is good but it's really thin, and I don't think I got all the puckers completely fixed because I have a microscopic occasional drip on one side. The Aviation would be a bit more forgiving because it's a little thicker. For whatever that's worth. :D

Thanks Aquifer. Great help and advice... :D

Wed Nov 26, 2025 4:02 am

Good information, thank you all. Is there any consideration regarding paint on the axle tube prior to assembly? I media blasted mine and have primed and painted them, including the inside of the cone flange that will mate to the transmission and rotate. The mating surface appeared to be a mix of worn paint and bare metal when removed, but hard to tell. The transmission appeared to be the same where they join. I wouldn’t think moving metal parts bathed in oil would need paint. Did VW paint the swing axle to transmission mating surfaces or leave them bare metal?

Wed Nov 26, 2025 6:36 am

Schnitzelfuss wrote: Good information, thank you all. Is there any consideration regarding paint on the axle tube prior to assembly? I media blasted mine and have primed and painted them, including the inside of the cone flange that will mate to the transmission and rotate. The mating surface appeared to be a mix of worn paint and bare metal when removed, but hard to tell. The transmission appeared to be the same where they join. I wouldn’t think moving metal parts bathed in oil would need paint. Did VW paint the swing axle to transmission mating surfaces or leave them bare metal?

I don’t know what VW did, but I can tell you what I did. Someone else will probably know what VW did.

I left everything bare metal from where the small end of the boot clamps to the tube. So basically part of the tube and the entire bell cone is bare metal - anyplace that the fluid touches is bare metal. I masked it so the boot clamp straddles paint and bare metal on the tube. I mocked up the boot to see where the small end would clamp, marked it, and then masked accordingly.

Side note: I ended up changing my mind and installing original non-split boots, but the paint line hit in the same spot as the split boots, so it was fine. I recommend using the non split boots since you have it apart anyway. Yes, they do stretch over the bell cone. I know that sounds impossible, but it actually worked fine for me. There are threads on here, and I watched a YouTube video to learn how to do it.

As I said above, just be darn sure to get the puckers out of the flange or it won’t sit evenly on the gaskets and will leak. Something thicker than Gasgacinch will be a bit more forgiving.

Here are a few pictures:

Wed Nov 26, 2025 2:44 pm

Thanks, your approach makes sense, I will inspect the retainers and ensure they mate flush. I plan to use my Hylomar Blue as the sealer. Agree on the one piece boots, I bought them and plan to install them. I watched the video, would never have thought they would stretch over the cones and return to their original diameter but it appears they do. Do the clamps that come with the one piece boots seal and hold up well? I’m considering using pinch (ear) clamps, they will never loosen and never need checked for loosening. Their downside is you should use a special tool to install them, and you have to destroy them to remove them.

Wed Nov 26, 2025 3:11 pm

Schnitzelfuss wrote: Thanks, your approach makes sense, I will inspect the retainers and ensure they mate flush. I plan to use my Hylomar Blue as the sealer. Agree on the one piece boots, I bought them and plan to install them. I watched the video, would never have thought they would stretch over the cones and return to their original diameter but it appears they do. Do the clamps that come with the one piece boots seal and hold up well? I’m considering using pinch clamps, they will never loosen and never need checked for loosening. Their only downside is you have to destroy them to remove them.

I got my one piece boots from West Coast Metric, and they were OEM VW, but they didn't come with clamps. I had already ordered split boots from Wolfsburg West before changing my mind to go with one-piece boots. The WW split boots came with regular worm screw clamps, so I just used those on the one piece.

I don't think I've ever used pinch clamps. If they come apart so you can get them over the tube, they should work good. Otherwise you have to use worm screw clamps and just check them from time to time.

Wed Nov 26, 2025 3:51 pm

Ah yes, good point. Ear (Oetiker) pinch clamps do not come apart so they won’t work on the axle tube. I happen to have the tool to install band clamps, they do separate for ease of install, and like the ear clamp, never need checked once tightened, but like the ear clamp must be cut off and no way around it, you must use a special tool to install them. Another old school alternative is just use steel lockwire.