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Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:59 am

Has anyone installed a 1.8 or 2.0 Type 4 engine in the back of a buggy? Any complications to the install and would it be cheaper ultimately to install a bus engine rather than a built type 1. I am trying to weigh the cost versus power and reliability. Type 4 engines are still quite available. Any success stories?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:56 pm

This is a 2.2 type 4 from a friend. Great engine but not cheap.

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:22 pm

I looked into running a type 4 in my buggy as I already had a 2.0. I soon found that the type 4 parts are a bit more expensive but the killer for me was the lack of an affordable buggy exhaust and the cost of converting to upright cooling.

Here's a good place to start
http://www.fatperformance.com/

and here

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:36 pm

Generally, will a rebuilt T4 be cheaper than a built T1, not likely.

If you can buy a nice running T4 engine and live with the stock cooling the only issue will be the flywheel (some can be made compatable with Type 1 transaxle some can't, e.g. 914 can't). Kennedy and others offer a conversion flywheel that accepts 200mm clutch and PP as a bolt on. If you want to convert to upright then conversion kits (porsche style, DTM, Center Mount, Corvair style - not really upright) are available. Alternatively, you can purchase Joe Cali's book and make your own for alot less money(requires metal fabrication skills) or purchase some conversion cylinder covers from Sharpbuilt or CSP and use a T1 shroud. In addition, aftermarket exhausts that look decent on a buggy are not common and expensive (the one in the picture is no longer available).

Links:
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/home.php?cat=249 (DTM)
http://www.sharpbuilt.com.au/sharpbuilt1/page11.htm (T1 Style)
http://www.sharpbuilt.com.au/sharpbuilt1/page12.htm (Porsche Style)
http://www.bergmannvw.net/street_type_kits.htm (Porsche Style)
http://www.sacoperformance.com/proddetail.php?prod=33-2040 (Center Mount)
http://www.tangerineracing.com/engine.htm (Corvair Style)
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/product.php?productid=16311&cat=317&page=1 (Joe Cali's Manual)

I am builting a T4 engine for my Manx I using an original OPP DTM and a merged bus exhaust mounted upright (kinda looks like a Manx sidewinder). I am using a 914 engine case (oil dipstick is mounted in the case), stock 66mm stroke, and 93mm domed pistons (heads undecided). A good reference site is: http://www.tunacan.net/t4/index.shtml
It appears the tunacan site is temporarily down.

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:55 pm

I have a T-IV in the back of my baja,

my exhaust couldn't be much cheaper.
I have the headers pointing forward then 2 180* bends and 2 round tube mufflers. (look like buggy glass packs, but a nice muffled sound).

I did give it mounts onto my rear cage bumper, but I've seen some that don't. and only dangle it from the trans.

I like the econo low buck torque & HP upgrade. I've done nothing to it aside from a single progressive (i'd rather run some duals).

can't see it well in my image, but you can see the DS exhaust
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/269984.jpg

I hope that helps.

Dan in NY

Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:07 pm

Type 4 buggy exhaust

http://www.europeanmotorworks.com/pvw/204-092/type-4-exhaust/Off+Road+Exhaust

Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:28 pm

BL3Manx wrote: Type 4 buggy exhaust

http://www.europeanmotorworks.com/pvw/204-092/type-4-exhaust/Off+Road+Exhaust
would love to see some pics of this exhaust installed

Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:41 pm

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=283579

Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:57 pm

The other option beside spending money on an improved fan shroud is to replace the cylinders with nikasil coated aluminum ones. They'd cool better with a stock fan system than iron ones with the best DTM system. I'd have them cryo'd first though.

http://www.qscusa.com/Piston1.html

I really think though that a stock 1980 2.0L bus engine, with a set of 36mm Baby Dells, small valves and all, would be a great torque monster buggy engine.

I've got one in the garage I'm planning to do just that with.

Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:43 pm

To installed any type IV engine into a Beetle box you need a bus 1700-1800 flywheel and clutch ( 210 mm --215mm ) and a pilot bush that fits into the centre of the fly wheel that all, you still run a standard starter motor. I have run a type IV since 1993 in a Beetle and for many years in a dune buggy----great engine

Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:02 pm

dune limo wrote: To installed any type IV engine into a Beetle box you need a bus 1700-1800 flywheel and clutch ( 210 mm --215mm ) and a pilot bush that fits into the centre of the fly wheel that all, you still run a standard starter motor. I have run a type IV since 1993 in a Beetle and for many years in a dune buggy----great engine

You can also use a T4 pilot shaft bearing, same as a T1 gland nut pilot bearing - in the center of the Bus flywheel on this swap - slight machining required -

http://www.tunacan.net/t4/tech/flywheel.htm#bearing

Replacement bearing: http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-111-105-313-A

bnc

Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:11 pm

What are Porsche 912 motors? Type IV?

Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:45 am

xirxious wrote: What are Porsche 912 motors? Type IV?
If you are talking about 1965-69 912's ... no, not really. If you are talking about the 1976 912E ... yes it is. (The E means it's fuel injected but some 912E's have been converted to carbs.)

Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:16 am

i have a 1.8 with dual webbers im pulling from a rusty 74 914 and i was planning on using it in my new buggy im building. will it work with a late bus transaxle? im getting a wrecked bus with a good transaxle, not sure what year bus, but its a late model with a t4 engine, the po is keeping the engine to put in his dunebuggy so i may can get the flywheel.

Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:02 am

In my baja I'm running the T-IV 228mm clutch& flywheel on a Thing trans (same as beetle)
I did have to do some clearancing, just be very slight and don't hog out material. I spray'd the inside of the Bellhousing and slipped the engine & trans together, rotated engine by hand, and pulled back apart to see where it touched the paint. clearance, repaint (it can be wet, the idea is that they do not touch each other anyways.)

I didn't do the pilot bearing step, I just didn't know about it back then.. and have run for a few years, but I only run it occasionally so no real milage on it. and I WILL be taking it back apart to do the pilot bearing step.

I love the bigger 228mm clutch for pedal effort & slip/grip.
I am intending to upgrade to a 5rib trans this season.

dune limo wrote: To installed any type IV engine into a Beetle box you need a bus 1700-1800 flywheel and clutch ( 210 mm --215mm ) and a pilot bush that fits into the centre of the fly wheel that all, you still run a standard starter motor. I have run a type IV since 1993 in a Beetle and for many years in a dune buggy----great engine

Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:26 am

so would the 914 1.7 flywheel and pp work with the late bus tranny?

Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:30 am

If needed, you can use a 1700 bus input mainshaft in a Type 1 trans. Then, you do not need to mess with the pilot bearing in the flywheel.
It uses the stock pilot bearing in the end of the crank.

Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:49 am

but that would require tearing down the T-I trans, unlike swapping input shafts in the 002/091 trans

I mean sure if you're having the trans rebuilt anyways.
but seems like more work then aving the flywheel machined for a bearing.

Quote: If needed, you can use a 1700 bus input mainshaft in a Type 1 trans. Then, you do not need to mess with the pilot bearing in the flywheel.
It uses the stock pilot bearing in the end of the crank.

Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:03 am

You only have to pull one side cover to change it.
It is all inside the differential.
Side cover off, slide one snap ring back, slide the reverse gear out of the way, and unscrew the shaft.
Reverse for putting it back together.

Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:29 am

superman73 wrote: so would the 914 1.7 flywheel and pp work with the late bus tranny?

no, starter ring gear on 914 flywheel is in different location on flywheel compared to T4 Bus flywheel & starter will not engage.

bnc