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Fuel line questions for '77 with '72 engine
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mk1978
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:26 pm    Post subject: Fuel line questions for '77 with '72 engine Reply with quote

Howdy folks,

I'm currently chipping away at a bunch of things on a '77 Beetle I'm planning on getting back on the road shortly. It was parked by the previous owner a few years back (was a daily/he bought a new car for longer highway commutes).

Anyway today I was getting around to replacing all the fuel lines.

This was originally a FI car obviously but at some point someone installed an AE code engine from '72, has a Brosol H30/31.

I bought some nice "multi fuel/ethanol safe" hose from Belmetric in the 5mm size thinking about the engine bay, got some of the nice fancy clamps from WW.

I tackled the hardest hose 1st, the one going from the hardline from the tunnel to the engine bay. I got everything out ok, went to install the new hose on the hard line...wouldn't fit. I had already pulled the gas tank to get at the front end stuff better so I double checked the hardline up there....and of course had the light bulb/duh moment: of course the 5mm hose won't fit on the hardline, it's the bigger 7mm size!

So now I gotta do some figuring.

I gotta check the outlet on the tank to see but I'm guessing that's the larger size too, it is the original tank since it has a return outlet.

I'm just not sure what to use, looks like they used 1/4" for most of the car. I was thinking of using the Belmetric 7mm ID stuff from tank to inline filter to hard line up front. Seems like that should be fine.

Then the tricky part: the hard line coming out of the tunnel under the car is of course the FI size but it runs to a short 5-6" section of the smaller 5.5mm carb size hard line where it goes through the firewall into the engine bay...is it going to be safe to use the bigger FI hose on the smaller section of hard line? I'm not sure what the workaround here is, at some point I need to go from one size to the other. It seems maybe the 1/4" they used worked because it was a little small for the FI line but they jammed it on, but was a little big for the 5.5mm hard line so they just cranked down the clamp.

Is there an easy or obvious solution for this that I'm missing? Maybe I should just stick with the 1/4" hose just for that section?

Of course once I'm into the engine bay I'm golden, got all the right size stuff for that.

I'm getting pretty close to getting this thing fired up, getting excited!

thanks for any input,

Mk
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mk1978
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel line questions for '77 with '72 engine Reply with quote

Just to add, it's possible that the hose they used previously was 5/16", as 1/4" seems like it wouldn't possibly fit on the bigger FI hard lines but 5/16" would.

However...I don't think attaching the 5/16" hose to the smaller 5.5mm hardline at the fire wall seems safe.

thanks,

Mk
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel line questions for '77 with '72 engine Reply with quote

Many fuel filters have a stepped nipple, that also works as an adaptor.

You are kind of stuck with the 7mm on all the stuff up front.
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mk1978
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel line questions for '77 with '72 engine Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Many fuel filters have a stepped nipple, that also works as an adaptor.

You are kind of stuck with the 7mm on all the stuff up front.



Yeah while I was making dinner I thought of the filter idea too. I think that's what I'll do.

I'll delete the filter under the tank, go 7mm from the hard line under the car to an inline filter, then 5mm hose from the other end of the filter thru the firewall to the pump.

This deletes the short section of hard line that is currently thru the firewall & I don't love the idea of fuel hose through there but I will keep a close eye on that hose, if it ever seems to be rubbing through by being agains the hole in the firewall I'll just replace it. I have a feeling that will take quite a while though (if it happens) especially when using high quality hose.

thanks,

Mk
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel line questions for '77 with '72 engine Reply with quote

Why not put the filter between the end of the line coming out of the frame horn and the hard line to the pump that goes through the front tin?
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DesignBuild
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel line questions for '77 with '72 engine Reply with quote

Many folks are not aware that the original location of the rear fuel filter was at the point where the metal tube comes out of the frame horn, then the filter and then a copper plated steel fuel pipe that is bent around the upright portion of the fan shroud with a small sheet metal clamp, then across the front of the shroud until just before the intake manifold, then bent to reach the mechanical fuel pump. The copper plated tube on my car has a little clamp above the air vent from the doghouse oil cooler. The clamp is screwed to the shroud at that location. I replaced it with a stainless steel sheet metal clamp that goes around the tube. The 5/16 fuel hose is 7.9mm ID. If you are getting hose from belmetric they should have 6mm ID, but 1/4 in ID is 6.35mm. If you are using hose to joint things together you will not need much. Are you using the oetiker circular stainless steel hose clamps? That is what VW originally used.

My '72 Super came to the USA from Germany in 2015 and not much had been messed with because it had been in storage for 39 years. So what I just described was the way I found it when I changed the rear fuel filter. There was or is one under the tank and the other is near the transmission. Many other things were not messed with either, like the brake hoses. They were all made by Fulda and were dated 4/72. None of them had any surface cracks and the metal end fittings were still plated.

The oetiker clamps are in this picture.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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mk1978
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel line questions for '77 with '72 engine Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Why not put the filter between the end of the line coming out of the frame horn and the hard line to the pump that goes through the front tin?


You're totally right, I must have had a brain fart (was a long day yesterday) when I thought I would need to delete that short hard line thru the firewall, using the inline filter as an adapter there's not reason not to keep it.

As I mentioned in the 1st post this car originally had a filer under the tank as well as one between the tunnel hardline & firewall.

Is it helpful at all to have two filters?

I was planning on deleting the one under the tank & just using to the other one. Seems like it should be sufficient but correct me if I'm wrong.

thanks,

Mk
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mk1978
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel line questions for '77 with '72 engine Reply with quote

DesignBuild wrote:
Many folks are not aware that the original location of the rear fuel filter was at the point where the metal tube comes out of the frame horn, then the filter and then a copper plated steel fuel pipe that is bent around the upright portion of the fan shroud with a small sheet metal clamp, then across the front of the shroud until just before the intake manifold, then bent to reach the mechanical fuel pump. The copper plated tube on my car has a little clamp above the air vent from the doghouse oil cooler. The clamp is screwed to the shroud at that location. I replaced it with a stainless steel sheet metal clamp that goes around the tube. The 5/16 fuel hose is 7.9mm ID. If you are getting hose from belmetric they should have 6mm ID, but 1/4 in ID is 6.35mm. If you are using hose to joint things together you will not need much. Are you using the oetiker circular stainless steel hose clamps? That is what VW originally used.

My '72 Super came to the USA from Germany in 2015 and not much had been messed with because it had been in storage for 39 years. So what I just described was the way I found it when I changed the rear fuel filter. There was or is one under the tank and the other is near the transmission. Many other things were not messed with either, like the brake hoses. They were all made by Fulda and were dated 4/72. None of them had any surface cracks and the metal end fittings were still plated.

The oetiker clamps are in this picture.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Interesting info, thanks.

I'm not using those clamps but some nice ones from Wolfsburg West that have the rounded edges, unlike the standard sharp edged worm drive ones that actually cut into the hose when tightened.

Mk
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel line questions for '77 with '72 engine Reply with quote

mk1978 wrote:
busdaddy wrote:
Why not put the filter between the end of the line coming out of the frame horn and the hard line to the pump that goes through the front tin?


You're totally right, I must have had a brain fart (was a long day yesterday) when I thought I would need to delete that short hard line thru the firewall, using the inline filter as an adapter there's not reason not to keep it.

As I mentioned in the 1st post this car originally had a filer under the tank as well as one between the tunnel hardline & firewall.

Is it helpful at all to have two filters?

I was planning on deleting the one under the tank & just using to the other one. Seems like it should be sufficient but correct me if I'm wrong.

thanks,

Mk

One filter is usually enough if the tank is clean, maybe replace the front one with an inline valve to make changing the rear one neater next time?
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vwoldbug
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel line questions for '77 with '72 engine Reply with quote

The fuel shutoff is a good idea.
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mk1978
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel line questions for '77 with '72 engine Reply with quote

In thinking about 1 filter vs 2 I'm realizing there may be a good reason for this car previously having 2: There's no screen in the tank. VW must have stopped doing this at some point?

I think I'm gonna go with 2 filters.

Mk
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