| Author |
Message |
SRP1
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007
Posts: 4340
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:36 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Damn simple ass concept that the samba crew has turned into another
great wonder of the world.....  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76911
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| SRP1 wrote: |
Damn simple ass concept that the samba crew has turned into another
great wonder of the world..... |
Yup, just a bunch of people that show they really don't understand how the engine works.
BTW... the distributor turns at 1/2 crank speed so 3* at the crank 1.5* at the distributor.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Culito
11010101
Joined: December 07, 2006
Posts: 5865
Location: Columbia Missourah
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenn wrote: |
| SRP1 wrote: |
Damn simple ass concept that the samba crew has turned into another
great wonder of the world..... |
Yup, just a bunch of people that show they really don't understand how the engine works.
BTW... the distributor turns at 1/2 crank speed so 3* at the crank 1.5* at the distributor. |
And maybe learned something in the process. I learned that the distributors that had the #3 retarded was done by the distributor lobes, because that is what determines when the points open and close, thus determines timing in relation to the other cylinders.
Now I can lord it over someone else in another thread.
_________________
Copyright CJ Industries, Inc.
'64 standard w/2.0L type 4
'62 bug
| johnnypan wrote: |
| ...dont pay no attention to Culito,he's a cornhole.. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HRVW
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2011
Posts: 2531
Location: Rosarito, Mexico
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
 Elementory Watson...it's not what you have but how you use it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JerryMCarter1
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 6199
Location: N.W. Phoenix
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
The history book was written in stone !
Now we have the task of finding the 3 degree Samba rumor!
Jerry
_________________
Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
R-Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2008
Posts: 164
Location: Out West
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The distributors with #3 retard are only needed with the early non-doghouse fan shrouds. This was done because the oil cooler not only hindered air to the 3-4 side, especially #3 cylinder, it pre-heated the air also.
Glenn, do the 010 and 019 distributors have the #3 retard? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DesignBuild
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2016
Posts: 314
Location: TEXAS
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:35 am Post subject: Re: Firing Order Question (Retarding #3 Firing) |
|
|
So instead of changing the way the oil is cooled, the ignition timing only on #3 is retarded. That is a heck of a lot more complicated then it would have been to improve the flow of cooling air to the #3 cylinder or locate the oil cooler outside of the engine and maybe over the top of the transmission in the moving airstream, aided by a thermostatically controlled air fan. Many of the automatic transmission lubricant coolers in use since 1996 had auxiliary fans controlled by the temperature of the transmission fluid. With the cooler over the transmission a spin-on oil filter could also be incorporated.
Some of the folks don't seem to know that there is actually an air outlet to the front of the car on the driver's side of the bell housing that lets air out of the fan housing immediately after the oil cooler. This could be the cause of less cooling air to #3. If there is less air cooling #3, then why isn't #4 also affected by less air flow? Why isn't cylinder 4 over heating? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DesignBuild
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2016
Posts: 314
Location: TEXAS
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="61SNRF"]
| Mooosman wrote: |
| 66brm wrote: |
| It has to be done on the lobes or the timing doesn't change |
No, it's in the breaker cam. The primary side of the ignition system is what determines the timing of the spark events.
The cap is part of the secondary side. |
What drives the primary side of the ignition system? The camshaft drives the distributor. In the scheme of things changing the position of the cam lobes is a hell of a lot easier in manufacturing than changing the molding of the distributor cap that is used on various VW engines that do not have a retarded ignition on one cylinder and don't need it. If you want a retarded ignition event on only one cylinder all of the time, then you do it by changing the position of the lobes for one cylinder. That would affect only one engine used in one particular car where it is necessary to do so.
Don't solve the real problem which is inadequate cooling because there is something in the way and that something is increasing the heat load on the cooling air going to the left side of the engine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pruneman99
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012
Posts: 5013
Location: Oceanside
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Firing Order Question (Retarding #3 Firing) |
|
|
| DesignBuild wrote: |
So instead of changing the way the oil is cooled, the ignition timing only on #3 is retarded. That is a heck of a lot more complicated then it would have been to improve the flow of cooling air to the #3 cylinder or locate the oil cooler outside of the engine and maybe over the top of the transmission in the moving airstream, aided by a thermostatically controlled air fan. Many of the automatic transmission lubricant coolers in use since 1996 had auxiliary fans controlled by the temperature of the transmission fluid. With the cooler over the transmission a spin-on oil filter could also be incorporated.
Some of the folks don't seem to know that there is actually an air outlet to the front of the car on the driver's side of the bell housing that lets air out of the fan housing immediately after the oil cooler. This could be the cause of less cooling air to #3. If there is less air cooling #3, then why isn't #4 also affected by less air flow? Why isn't cylinder 4 over heating? |
Your talking about two different fan shrouds. The inline and doghouse. The inline cooler sat in the shroud and heated the air blown on the 3-4 side. 3 was the first to be hit by this hot cooling air. So they retarded the #3 in some engines to compensate.
The dog house moved the oil cooler out of the air that cooled the cylinders, and dumped it in front of the tin on on left side of the car.
Nice necrobump btw. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
