Dummy Learns Transaxle

[Clatter]

Man, Timmy, i sure am glad you wrote that book.
A few months later i forget everything and have to read up.
SO much more practical/useful than the Bentley.
Your book is on my bench and open during the whole process.

WRT oiling mods it's pretty relevant for what I'm doing here.
The boxes i build are all going into cars with built big motors,
but instead of being drag raced, they're going to be run hard in the heat on the highway.
Owned by adults, but with big motors and heavy feet..
Thus, the oiling thing is key.
Most obvious is opening up the side clearances for oiling.
but,
like you say,
this gives the gears room to wind up and smack the hub, right?

Sometimes thinking some more oil grooves or holes might be a better solution to oiling than just opening up clearances bigger?
Maybe?



On that note..
Here I'm setting up clearances on the 3-4 hub on box destined for freeway use with a big motor (FFF patent pending )

One thing I'm thinking is just good smarts,
just like using Weddle hardened thrust washers,
it's also good to use new circlips everywhere/all the time.
They're cheap, totally suck to work with when they've slipped and usually spread open and get loose on removal.

Here the two circlips on each side of 3-4 hub have both spread and don't sit tight.
They will move around in their groove.
At least until you push the hub up towards 4th like you're sposeta..
The hub clearance at 3rd opens up bigger than .010.

Then the clearance from the hub to 4th goes kinda small.

Tempting to take a couple thou off the face of that 4th to get some more oil in there,
But does it really matter?
Also tempted to drill the hub and/or give the gear a couple oil slots..

The factory might have done this if it really helped,
But then again, it's free to do the mods.

Maybe I'm just being totally stupid and need to just put the thing together already!

Wish Paul would chime in.
His work on Vanagon trans oiling is so golden..



Now that i have the basics down and have done a couple,
I'm really trying to learn where to draw the line.
What's good to replace, and what's just a waste of money?
Parts add up -real- quick when you get on the Weddle site.

Take syncros for example.
This Ghia box was a total peach. Needed very little.
So do i put syncros in?
They measure great at around .054.
Bible specs new parts at .043 to .075,
With a wear limit at .024.

New Brazil syncros on the same hub measure about .060.

The $75 or so for the syncros doesn't really bug me that much.
(OK maybe sometimes - that's a lot of beer)
These German syncros are already worn in, and probably better quality.
Really hard to not run them.

Had a similar situation when i went to see Scott and he didn't hesitate to put fresh syncros in.
Seems he does it every time just by default when he's got a box open.


Yeah, I'm spending days and days fiddling with stupid details,
But a few good boxes will come out of it I'm thinking.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Xevin]

[Clatter]

[Lingwendil]

I will have to digest the whole thread from the beginning next time I have a significant chunk of downtime at work.
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73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[Clatter]

[Clatter]

Woops.. Double post
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[67rustavenger]

Funny. Your name comes up in mechanical conversations with Xevin frequently.

I have found that your posts are instructional, informative, and damn funny.

Like you, if I have a failure. I post what happened. Either to learn what I did incorrectly or to educate others on what not to do. To avoid a bad experience.

BTW, Xevin hung his racing gloves Saturday night. He felt he couldn't do any better. Beating up in innocent 1600 SP peashooter racers.

Xevin transferred you trans warrantee offer to me!


JK!
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[Clatter]

[Clatter]

Been nerding out on 3-4 hub setup..

Wanted to post this link to have it here.

3-4 hub is its own kettle of fish.
https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=1254156&hilit=fourth#p1254156
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Trying to setup 3-4 hub and gears ⚙️..

First off, i guess we’ll drill some oil holes.
The Weddle hubs, both 3-4 and 1-2 have them,
So why not?

Interesting that some hubs drill easy and others no way.

Ordered a $14 “carbide” drill bit from Amazon.
We’ll see what shows and if it works or not.


WRT the end-float thing, I’m getting some ideas..
Using a stock pair of circlips,
When the hub gets forced towards 4th in use:

The clearance between the hub and 3rd opens up.

Clearance between the hub and 4th closes down.

Weddle sells a circlip to setup smaller close-ratio gears,
As well as 091 snap-rings that are thicker.

Usually, a real builder with a lathe will face the hub in the snap-ring area carefully on both sides to get the clearance perfect on both 3rd and 4th.
Since i have no lathe and have to schlep across town to see a machinist i was thinking of having an 091 snap ring surface-ground for the 4th sideof the hub.
If i have the 091 snap-ring taken down so it’s .004 thicker than the stock one,
When the hub gets shoved against 4th, there will be .010 clearance instead of .006..
The 3rd side snap ring can stay stock because it’s just along for the ride anyways and doesn’t see any real thrust. Right?

At least for a fairly mild street driven application..

So, you guys think this is a good way to setup 3-4?
Not the right full-tight-captive you would use in a drag or off-road race trans,
But it should give 4th the clearance/oil it needs to not gall..
Will the hub get thrust against 3rd on decel and maybe stick there?

Let me know if i’m on the right track,
Or even the right train.. 🤪

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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[VWporscheGT3]

[Clatter]

Man! This Ghia trans is such a peach!


After having so many cores be full of rotten junky parts,
One like this seems impossible!

Had the pinion bearing off for cleaning/inspection and it looked good enough to run some more.
Check out how much tighter the nut came than before;
Maybe part of that is blue locktite for lube?

Since this box was in good shape, it kept the same pinion bearing, case, R/P and shims.
Only thing the diff area got was new Brazil SKF carrier bearings.
Because it seemed like this box was still never rebuilt from new,
It gave me a chance to try my turning torque measuring tools and compare to feel.
Here the factory knurled end parts take the slop out of the diff side gears so backlash and turning torque can be measured.
(No R/P in place here)

It was funny to see the numbers all over the place.
This/that different ways of measuring were tried,
As well as these tools:

In the end, these measurements were all over the place.
Same tool wouldn’t repeat.
Sometimes next to nothing, sometimes off the scale with that old CM/KP turning tool from the Bentley.
The other beam wrenches didn’t match each other or the old one either.

Tried doing some lift-off measurements with the cover,
But it fit really tight, and never would pop off straight.
Measurements would be like .015 on one side and .001 on the opposite.

In the end, it totally makes sense that everyone does it by feel.
When it went together, it felt just right.
And with these parts, why not?
Put it together and feel tells the story.
Do it dry, feel it, add a little oil, do it again, and the feel tells the story. Done.


Rigged up my little home-made backlash tab tool and it showed almost .013.
Because I’m measuring outside the OD of the ring gear,
It’s probably around .011 or .010 measuring correctly at the gear with factory tools.

Yeah, that’s a lot more than the .006 or .008 a hot rod box should have,
But the pattern matches the original wear marks perfectly..

I’m -thinking- it’s probably best to leave it like this so it runs quiet on the highway.
This a freeway box after all, and it’s just for street use.

Think i should tighten that backlash up?
Maybe?

Or is it best to leave like this?
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

[jimmyhoffa]

I did the ole' "tighten the lash because it seemed weird not to" thing on a bus box in a Baja, and when I took the bellhousing off for the next service, I saw some mild scarring on the root of the drive side of the ring gear teeth. Maybe it wasn't the cause but it was a weird coincidence.

I think if you're going to chance pulling the lash in any tighter than you think it was on used gears, you may need to chamfer/soften the edges of the pinion teeth as well as I've heard mentioned before.
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1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.

[jpaull]

Are you using normal gear marking compound? it looks like really old stuff or something different then normal marking compound, and makes it hard to see whats going on.

Here is one i did on a Chevy ring and pinion recently. My compound is abit "much" because i removed pinion shims, added shims, adjusted carrier shims left to right many times before finding out the stock pinion shim set was indeed the best pattern that the housing could produce.

Regular marking compound example:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rmg-5500011?sei...awEALw_wcB

[Clatter]

[Bruce]

[Clatter]

Because i had a couple of those thrust plates to use up;
The ones that retain the mainshaft bearing.
Usually i like the Bruce plate because it’s so much easier.

My Main Man Jim just got some 3-phase rigged up at his new shop and milled a couple nosecones for me.

Talk about overkill.. 😎

Damn, that machine does a nice job.

Just had to brag a bit here..
Ain’t braggin’ if it’s true, right?
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Thought I'd follow up on this..

Got a box built up for my man Trevor.
It's pretty much the same as the second box i did here,
Including a trip to see Scott.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=770207&highlight=trevors

Was visiting another VW master, my man Lee in NM,
And he was saking about these first boxes i did.
He also asked if they were sitting in my damp shop a block from the ocean..

Don't want them turning into a 'rust box'..!
With all of those gears clean and encased with a tiny vent hole,
It makes sense that they would get dew inside on cold mornings.

While i had plans on pulling out the 'failed rebuild' first one i did.
It's been breaking in and now shifts easily and exactly.
It's also completely quiet.
Like a factory box instead of one of those cheap rebuilds i always got..
Even though the ratios aren't the best and it's just a bunch of parts i had around,
It's really hard to pull a box that works perfectly!

In the meantime,
properly storing these others means they should have some oil in them,
And the plan is to go and turn them every so often to keep things coated in oil.
That means adding nose cones and getting them oil tight.

In my last post i was all bragging about having Jim surface some nose cones for me,
But just like that i used them all up!

Loooking again at the thrust plate mod...
Do you -really- need to surface the nose cone .040 to compensate for the plate?
Seems that even though the cone might be .040 forward in the car,
The hockey stick is going to be in the same place.
I'm running an aftermarket rear cradle that's thicker, and that .040 could already be taken up.
Plus, if you run no gasket, there's part of your .040 as well, right?


Here, we got a thrust plate modified to clear a Bruce plate.
Belt -and- suspenders.

Here's the Ghia box all sealed up, some Swepco 201 in there swirled around,
Put on boards level for when i finally get around to swapping it in.

Second box i did at Scott's got the same treatment.

Can't have them becoming a 'rust box' sitting here waiting their turn.

Just gotta get off my ass and swap one of them into the car.

Yes, I'm a hoarder.

Thanks for following along.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Teeroy]

Why not bag each of them up in a HD plastic bag with a couple desiccant bags for any moisture.
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Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org