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jimmyp1000 Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Great Britain
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:07 am Post subject: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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I have a 1950 Beetle that came incomplete.
I am trying to figure out how the accelerator cable exits the chassis and links to the engine, because as far as I can see there is no bowden cable to take up the "flex" as the engine moves on it's mounts, and so if the engine moves on the mounts it in effect can pull the accelerator cable.
What am I missing here?
Where those conduits exit the chassis I can push on a bowden for the clutch, but the accelerator has nothing for a bowden to push onto as it seems recessed compared to clutch and choke conduits. |
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D. Haviland Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 536 Location: Burlington, Vermont
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:43 am Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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Accelerator cable does not use a bowden tube. I'm not sure about a 1950, but my 1952 zwittter, i believe has an oval shaped rubber grommet type thing where the cable exits the tunnel. |
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rod_vw Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2006 Posts: 416 Location: Shropshire, UK
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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No Bowden outer on the clutch cable either.
That came in at 1st October 1952. _________________ Rod,
Please visit http://www.historicvws.org.uk
https://www.facebook.com/historicvwclub/
1946 Beetle (Back on the road after over 50 years! Last major outing - Hessisch Oldendorf 2022)
2016 T6 Selfbuild Camper and a LWB MAN TGE in build. |
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jimmyp1000 Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Great Britain
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:54 am Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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Thanks for the answers.
This explains why I couldn't find any of the parts I was looking for (that don't exist......).
It is odd, and I also couldn't find any pictures how it should be.
Presumably this all works OK, but it does feel wrong, as the engine/trans moves it affects the relative position of and the tension on the cables. |
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rod_vw Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2006 Posts: 416 Location: Shropshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:30 am Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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It all works OK on our '46 but the early transmission with the cone shaped front mounting doesn't move any where near as much as later types.
If you are struggling for diagrams etc. feel free to give me a shout and I'll see what I can find. _________________ Rod,
Please visit http://www.historicvws.org.uk
https://www.facebook.com/historicvwclub/
1946 Beetle (Back on the road after over 50 years! Last major outing - Hessisch Oldendorf 2022)
2016 T6 Selfbuild Camper and a LWB MAN TGE in build. |
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3foldfolly Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2009 Posts: 894 Location: Edwardsville, Il
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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Split bugs didn't have clutch cable boden tubes? |
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6171
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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3foldfolly wrote: |
Split bugs didn't have clutch cable boden tubes? |
that is correct, they did not. _________________ drive your split. |
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jimmyp1000 Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Great Britain
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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rod_vw wrote: |
It all works OK on our '46 but the early transmission with the cone shaped front mounting doesn't move any where near as much as later types.
If you are struggling for diagrams etc. feel free to give me a shout and I'll see what I can find. |
Hi Rod,
If you have a diagram that shows the routing it would be great.
Thanks
James |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24670 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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Not till the early 1960s did the accelerator bowden tube get used as a factory part.
Down on the first page of the below thread there is an image that shows the earlier kind of paper clip bracket used probably back to 1938.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=400171&highlight=accelerator+bowden+tube _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Blue Baron VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006 Posts: 23739 Location: Southeast USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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Unless the transmission mounts are weak or broken, movement of the drive unit is not enough to noticeably affect the accelerator cable.
On the other hand, clutch judder was a problem with splits (ask me how I know), necessitating the addition of the bowden tube. _________________ We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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Tsettle Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011 Posts: 8 Location: Lincoln,uk
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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Hey I thought I’d jump in on this as I’m going through the same thing on my 49.
I’ve actually fitted a later 53-59 split case box with early bus nose cone.
Pretty much the same setup minus all crash gears.
I have a mount on this box for a Bowden tube, if I were to fit one would I need to buy a longer cable? Will the Bowden fit into the hole where the clutch cable comes out of the chassis.
Cheers Terry
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24670 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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Interesting question!
Can only say right now that you need to fix those axle boots or they are going to get torn up all too soon. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Tsettle Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011 Posts: 8 Location: Lincoln,uk
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:48 am Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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Eric&Barb wrote: |
Interesting question!
Can only say right now that you need to fix those axle boots or they are going to get torn up all too soon. |
I’ll give the boots a quick swivel and tighten when I’m back in the garage.
Be good to know what/if anyone has done this sort of think with clutch cables before. |
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peter schepens Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2003 Posts: 1013 Location: belgium Caesars camp
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 10:55 am Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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Eric&Barb wrote: |
Interesting question!
Can only say right now that you need to fix those axle boots or they are going to get torn up all too soon. |
That means.. the seam with the row of bolts.. sits on 14 hrs.. Not 12. Better is 15 hrs.. Flat.. WHY? The seam will be pushed in when the body is on the chassis and been driven.. in and out due to the action on the axles.. But a flat seam wil just be bend a bit.. And it is written in the VW workshop manual. There is not that much oil in the tubes.; _________________ Zelensis, glassfibre body made in Belgium , disigned and built on a VW platform About 25 body's built.
Hebmuller info wanted for http://www.hebmueller-registry.com/home.html |
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Tsettle Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011 Posts: 8 Location: Lincoln,uk
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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peter schepens wrote: |
Eric&Barb wrote: |
Interesting question!
Can only say right now that you need to fix those axle boots or they are going to get torn up all too soon. |
That means.. the seam with the row of bolts.. sits on 14 hrs.. Not 12. Better is 15 hrs.. Flat.. WHY? The seam will be pushed in when the body is on the chassis and been driven.. in and out due to the action on the axles.. But a flat seam wil just be bend a bit.. And it is written in the VW workshop manual. There is not that much oil in the tubes.; |
Cheers for the info. I’ll be sure to sort them. |
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nlorntson Crazy VW Lady
Joined: March 13, 2004 Posts: 3776 Location: Twin Cities, MN
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:12 am Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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My 49 but it has it's original crashbox:
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4080
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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There isn't anything to mount the front of the bowden tube to. Cars that had bowden tubes had a piece of the clutch tube of the correct diameter that the front metal sleeve of the bowden cable slipped over. That isn't present on earlier cars so retrofitting one would require some modification and fabrication work. Splits had an oval shaped tube that came out of the pan that the clutch, accelerator and choke cables all came through. The rubber boot visible in nlorntson's pictures show the location. Bowden tube cars had the clutch tube pass through and extend far enough for the bowden tube to slip onto. It would take some innovation to fit a bowden tube on an early car.
The boot is number 4 in this diagram and you can see the oval tube on the pan.
Later cars had this arrangement.
_________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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Tsettle Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011 Posts: 8 Location: Lincoln,uk
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:12 am Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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Ha great thanks Chris and Crazy VW Lady for the information. I think I’ll go ahead with the stock clutch cable setup on the later spilt case box and see how it goes. 👌🏼 |
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rod_vw Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2006 Posts: 416 Location: Shropshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:26 am Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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I think there was only 6mm difference in the length of the inner cable between the two versions.
Also as far as I remember the reason for the provision of the outer tube was to make clutch operation smoother. i.e. movement of the engine / transmission assembly was isolated from the cable. Probably made more pronounced as engine mountings became more flexible in an effort to reduce noise inside the car.
I don't find it any problem with the '46 and at this point I have a later crash box fitted with similar gearbox mountings to your three synchro one. _________________ Rod,
Please visit http://www.historicvws.org.uk
https://www.facebook.com/historicvwclub/
1946 Beetle (Back on the road after over 50 years! Last major outing - Hessisch Oldendorf 2022)
2016 T6 Selfbuild Camper and a LWB MAN TGE in build. |
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Tsettle Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011 Posts: 8 Location: Lincoln,uk
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:35 am Post subject: Re: 1950 Beetle accelerator cable - no bowden tube??? |
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Hey Rod
Thanks for adding in that information. Really helps and makes me feel confidant about the way it’s all going. 🙌🏼 |
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