Header clearance problem.

[beeniebug]

I want to replace these dual cannons with a decent merged header system. It's too loud even for my old half-deaf ears, they have to come off to adjust the valves, and I understand they cost a bit of power on the bottom, where I usually run. My local buggy shop has tried 2 different headers he has in stock, and both would hit the engine cage. Any suggestions?
Anyone have a similar frame that fits this close?

Dammit,, I almost never post anything, 'cause I'm on a tablet, and cant type worth a shit. I just spent bout an hour splainin bout this rail I just bought, then lost it when I linked the pics.

So, I'll try again later to tell the whole story, but right now I'm still pissed at loosing my finger-jabbing work, ain't drank enny cheap whiskey in 5 days, it's too cold outside to ride, so if anyone would care to look at the pics (others in my gallery) and give any suggestions on a header that might work I'd 'preciate it.

I've searched many pages of buggy pics here, and haven't found another frame like this one. Also not found another one with welds this ugly.
King-pin beam, 3-rib bus trans, 1776 w/engle 110 , weber 40's, 9.3 CR, stock valves, solid rocker shafts, and by my measure on a lathe, 1.25 rockers.
26" rear tires and bus rear gives lots of slow, not much top speed, no speedo, haven't checked it, just guessing 75 mph at 4000 r's.

Gonna quit fore I lose it again.

Thanks fer lissenin.
Stan

[oprn]

My rail is very similar but when I got rid of the dual cannons I made my own system. It's a bit like the old Tee Pee systems so if you could find one of those it will work. I don't know if anyone still makes them.

I have since changed to a quieter, lower restriction muffler.

_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[beeniebug]

Oprn,
Guess I oughta shut up about it being to cold to ride!
Love that wide horizon, haven't seen that kinda view in a couple years. Hope we get to go west and northwest again before long.
Don't suppose I've been in your neighborhood yet, but I did haul a load of cars from south Florida to Calgary several years ago in a previous life. Love the big-sky country!

Looks like you're handier with tube bending than I am. Son has a bender at his shop, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have the dies for 1 3/8" tubing, might have 1 1/2" though.
I've looked at the TeePee style pics, and as built they won't clear the frame tubing in front of the engine. Might be able to modify one though, if they're even still available.
Thanks for the reply and pics, that did kick-start my 3 remaining brain-cells
in a different direction.
Stan

[oprn]

I bought 1 3/8" "U" bends and pieced it all together, no tube bending. It took a bit of time but I enjoy that kind of thing. It's what they call a try Y system aimed at mid-range torque. My engine is a 1641 SP with stock a cam and single Solex carb so is no real powerhouse. We just use is for trail riding, hunting and miscellaneous chores around the acreage.

This Buggy has a Bus 3 rib too and 26" rear tires. It will still do 70 mph if you ask it to but I rarely do. It usually putts around at 40 mph or less and only gets opened up on the hills. Your engine would likely be fine with 1 1/2" exhaust. I felt I would lose too much bottom end torque with mine if I went that large.

Yes, I see your frame is pretty busy around the front of the engine. That will present a bit of a challenge! I paired the opposing cylinders together to eliminate the dual cannon low end idle and off idle bogs that the cannons typically have. That will be a bit more difficult on yours but if you go with long primaries that will help. Or a 4 into one system.

Calgary is some distance from us but we have a daughter and 2 nieces with families there so yes we are found in that city on occasion. Mostly flat and treeless around here and the wind piles the snow up but there are a few hills to the south east that make for a nice day out.

_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[DHale_510]

I have a old Funco buggy that used a multipiece teepee system, the pieces allow the #3 pipe to run ahead of the frame. When it rusted out I had a custom replica made by a header maker. Nothing like it anymore it seems.
I have used several kinds of mufflers on it and on my Baja Bug. After many "affordable" systems I now have stainless steel Supertrapp mufflers like the ones from JBugs listed here. They last so maybe they aren't as expensive as they seem. They also are "tuneable. fewer plates are quieter, and they deflect the exhaust so they don't blow on people or the dirt on my baja bug. I doubt their claim of efficiencies.
If you whack the worthless muffler looking things off and weld a 2" tube on there many generic mufflers can be adapted, but they need to be supported and are seldom very pretty.
Some old motorcycles used insert baffles for mufflers and long ago we adapted those into those bazookas, which were either empty or could be easily gutted.
https://www.jbugs.com/store/graphics/00000001/EMPI_Spark_Arrestor_3736_NO_DIMENSIONS.jpg

Dennis

[cbeck]

Here is a style of header that worked for my needs. But I bent my cage to fit.

_________________
My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[Dale M.]

Tri-Mil Bobcat....

https://socalautoparts.com/product/exhaust-system-...KUEALw_wcB

_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[madmike]

Or ,,,,, Make a new rear cage ,that one is dented anyhow
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[beeniebug]

Thanks for all the replys and pics. Very helpful and pretty much confirmed what I had suspected, and that is a cage modification is in my future.

Dale, that pic shows that I've gotta make some more room. Thanks.

I think I can do it without even replacing those "experience" marks. Lol. At some point in it's past this buggy got closely acquainted with some trees, rocks, or other such, from the front, rear, and both sides. It was obviously painted and re-built later, maybe more than once.
It was in the present condition externally when I bought it a few weeks ago.
PO did tell me it "dripped some oil", but I guess I was already sold and didn't even get down on the ground and look at the front underside of the engine after I turned it off. I mean it just looked so damn good when I pulled up in his nice clean concrete driveway, saw that pretty blue buggy sitting over there in the sun on that neat green grass, just across the narrow little road from that beautiful lake on the Cumberland river...........lol....
So I bought it, drove it a few miles to a motel where we spent the night. It was on a Sunday, and the trailer I had intended to bring had problems, so I told the war dept. that we would just go without a trailer, and if I bought the buggy we would just get room till Monday when u-haul would be open. Being the tough negotiator that I am, I figgered not having a trailer with me might give the impression that I wasn't to hot to buy it anyway.
So much for that plan. He wouldn't drop his price. Actually, he did have it listed on CL for a few weeks, then dropped it a thousand bucks a few days before I decided to go see it.
We rode around town in the buggy for a bit after getting the room, stopped and ate, then back to the motel for the night. That's when I saw that little puddle......... really it was only a tablespoon maybe, but that was enough to tell me I could either take it back, or dropping the motor was gonna happen soon. I decided I needed some skin knocked off my knuckles, so I kept it and went home.
I'm peck-typing on a tablet, which I hate, so I need to cut this short.
Dropped engine, flywheel looked like it had spent some time in the bottom of a creek, sealing surface pitted, thus the leak. Also was lightened to 10.3 lbs. and 8-doweled to crank. Solid rocker shafts, 1.25 rockers according to my measurement on a lathe, one rocker had replaced in the past, boogered up 1 valve-stem and retainer. Swivel-ball adjusters, geometry way ouy of whack.
So, I decided to split the case. It was a single-relief case, and no cam bearings! New to me! Engle 110, it and lifters looked almost new, rods were a mismatched bunch with .007 wear in the pin bushings. Rod and main bearings near new, but some signs of trashy oil. No filter was on it, I added that. Crank turned .04 mains and rods, case bored .060, thrust never been cut. Wow.
P&C looked great, but ring gap about half worn. I put new rings, rods, and put it back together.
Replaced the 1 valve, retainer, new cut to lgt crmo pushrods, set geometry.
Cleaned and adjusted carbs and it runs pretty good.
Nuff for now, and again thanks for the hel
Stan

PS
Forgot. CR measured to bout 10.4. Too much for me, so I lowered it to 9.3 by using .06 spacers instead of .02 that was there.

[beeniebug]

Update;
Being convinced that the rear cage had to be modified, I went back to my local bug-shop and got this header. He didn't have one with a quiet muffler so I got this one, as I can add the muffler later. Installed it, rigged the cage back on to figger out what I needed to do to make it fit, and decided to take a ride, since it was a nice day here. Then remembered that I had a pair of motorcycle mufflers in the shed somewhere, I dug them out, temp-welded one onto the end of the stinger and told the war-dept to get her ass in, it's time for a ride. Had a good ride up Keel mountain and back, plus a bit of other backroads. It's still louder than I want, but that's all easily fixable now, so on with the program.
Madmike is responsible for shaming me into replacing the "experienced" rear cage tubes as part of the necessary extension, so I thought I'd just show him who the boss is here and decided to order enough tubing to replace the dented front bumper as well as both side outriggers, which are all equally "experienced".

Hoping pics show latest progress and plans.
Stan

[madmike]

Your Welkome,
I bet it runs better with the new Header?
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[oprn]

He had the longer primary version, they tended to not be as bad plus he wasn't running two single barrel carbs and... his cam might be killing the low end some too.

I am going to guess that he might not be feeling that much difference.

Mine on the other hand, with the 6" front cylinder tubes paired with 24" rears... and dual Kadrons was downright horrible! Two cylinder idle and fell flat on its face below 3000 rpm!
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[beeniebug]

I think OPRN is pretty close. Considerably better idle now, still kinda weak until a bit over 2k rpms, this single motorcycle muffler might be getting restrictive above 4k, but I haven't wound it much past that. Probably gonna use some kind of quiet-pack, turbo muffler or similar. Am glad to be able to easily get to valve-covers now.

Thanks
Stan

[beeniebug]

Guess it looks like I had died, but not yet, I'm just really slow.
Finally got the "experienced" front bumper, both side-bars, and the rear cage replaced with a bit of redesigning thrown in. I went back to the local bug shop and got the header he had in stock and didn't realize it was 1 5/8" tubing till I got home. Called him and he said that's all he ever stocks or sells so I just kept it. Ordered a muffler that I thought would be pretty quiet, along with a few flanges and a u-bend, and waited around till it all finally got here.

Meanwhile, Hagarty informed me that they no longer insure rail buggies, so I had to hunt another insurer. I talked to Rally, they said no dice, called Grundy, they said maybe so and emailed me some forms which I've just now filled out, so it will be a few days before I find out whether I have inshewence.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch (shop) I decided to add a rear windshield/firewall to hopefully block some of the engine noise, and maybe cut down on the flow-through wind.

So, I really have been working a little bit, even though that week's worth of work took me nearly 4 months.

Now, after driving the buggy just a few times and a few miles, I can't really say that I gained anything much power-wise, did get a smoother idle maybe, and the exhaust is quieter, but the time and work to re-do the rear cage would have removed/replaced the dual cannon exhaust for valve-adjustments probably more times than I'll ever do it.

So, all told, I spent several days doing work that I enjoyed for the most part, never drank enough cheap whiskey to mess anything up or lose an eye or finger, so all is well.

Hopefully pics will appear shortly.

Thanks for all the input.

.

[beeniebug]

Just noticed that I forgot to mention the front suspension mods. I removed the torsion leaves in the lower beam, replacing them with a 5/8"diameter thru-rod, then cut the upper beam and welded in an adjustable center anchor. Forgot what this type is called, but y'all prolly know what that is.

As pictured, it sits at the highest adjustment, and will drop pretty low, probably within 7 or 8 inches of the floor. Actualy got it a bit lower than I intended, but I don't plan on any serious off-road use anyhow.

Removing the lower leaves really improved the ride, more than I had expected.

[jsturtlebuggy]

The front beam adjuster is called a SwayAway type. It design is the same as what is on a Porsche 356.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[oprn]

Looks like a lot of fun to me!
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[beeniebug]

I

've driven the buggy several miles over the last few weeks with the new muffler. It's nice and quiet until I hammer-down, then it's not offensively loud.

It's made it as far as Loreto, BCS, Mexico so far. Of course it got here in the back of a trailer. We've been running the dirt roads with the buggy everywhere we camp. I've seen a few baja bugs along the way, and there's a nice-looking rail here in Mulege, where we are now.

I've had a lot of fun with the buggy, but I'll never trailer it this far again. The trailer is 8' 6" outside width of tires, same as the big-trucks I meet on these narrow roads. Mex1 and 5 has some good sections and some rough, bumpy, narrow sections. No pavement to waste when meeting trucks.

Stan

[oprn]

Very nice! Any luck getting it insured for the street?
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[beeniebug]

Yes, just before leaving home I got confirmation from Grundy on my insurance.