Dropping the VR6 oil pan -- half shaft removal?

[VanGeek]

Been chasing a leak on my new-to-me 2001 Weekender this Winter.
Have a little more work to pinpoint the leak(s), but I'm fairly certain the pan seal is leaking.

Checked out the service manual and a youtube video: https://youtu.be/H7fEwcgs-Ow.

The oil pan bolts look a bit challenging to access. Easier to drop and remove the pan if you remove the half-shaft -- but of course more work to remove the half-shaft.

Looking for advice from those who have performed an oil pan removal on the VR6, applied a new gasket, and re-mounted it. Do you recommend removing the half-shaft or not?

[VanGeek]

The intermediate shaft and cv joint mounted to the outer right axle is definitely blocking one of the oil pan bolts. Maybe two of them.

I tried unbolting the outer right axle CV from the intermediate shaft and the bracket and bearing that supports the intermediate shaft. But this doesn't provide enough wiggle room to drop the CV joint on the outer axle and pull the intermediate shaft out (and out of the way).

There's gotta be a way to move or remove these parts without having to remove the right hand ball joints so the right axle is completely removed -- is there???

[frenchroast]

I've never owned a vr6 so unfortunately can't answer your question with first hand knowledge.

I have done an N52 bmw awd oil pan gasket and on that you have to drop the axle shafts, steering rack, subframe, motor mounts, oil cooler, differential, and suspend the motor. I spent some time trying to find a way around it but it was "easier" to just do the needful. Talked with a bmw tech and he said that's how it's done; disassemble half the car. Not only is all that necessary to drop the pan, you have to have clear access to all the oil pan stretch bolts to get them torqued correctly and that would not be possible with anything in the way.

[EuroTec]

That ball joint has to get disconnected.

BUT, are you really sure the pan is leaking? In my 30+ years of working on cars I've seen many misdiagnosed oil pan leaks. They hardly ever leak.

Before you take everything apart, I would suggest cleaning the whole underside of the engine with some aerosol parts cleaner. Get all the oil off. Take it for a 10 mile drive then look for oil and ALWAYS look for the highest point that you see oil leaking.

Many times the oil is coming from something higher than the pan. It hits the seam where the pan meets the block, accumulates there then drips off making you think the pan is leaking.

Common leaks on the VR6:
Valve cover gasket
Rear timing cover gasket
Water to oil cooler seals
_________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[VanGeek]

I've confirmed it's the oil pan that's leaking. After acquiring the vehicle last Fall I dropped the belly pan and carefully pressure washed around the engine bay (top, bottom, sides of the engine) and wiped off all the oil.

I'm diagnosing mechanical needs this Winter so she's up on stands in the garage until April/May. I warmed-up the engine a few times Dec-Feb inspected, and wiped away any grime or traces of oil including up the side of the block wherever I could.

After going thru this process a few times, the oil seep seemed obvious near the front edge of the pan on the passenger side. I tried to trace a source or any oil or oily trace of it along the block leading down to that part of the front edge but all was dry and clean there. The other characteristic that suggests oil pan seal is that it seems to continue a very slight leak in the same area even when it's not running.

[soissisc]

I find it easiest to unbolt the lower ball joint from the A arm and swing the hub out of the way to remove that half shaft. Then upon reassembly, the ball joint lines up perfectly and no need for alignment.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[VanGeek]

Thanks -- that's a great idea! In this case my inner tie-rod was also worn and I replaced it so I am due for an alignment when this is all done anyhow.

...ball joint will be unbolted and I'll get the half-shaft out of the way.

[EuroTec]

[VanGeek]

Well -- that was fun (not). Have the shaft and half shaft out of the way, and all the bolts removed.

But I can't seem to figure out the proper orientation and technique to drop the pan. Everything I try cause the pan to get hung-up on the passenger side control arm mount, the internal oil pickup, or the transmission or transmission mount.

It's like an impossible tetris puzzle.

Is there something else I must remove? I think the bolt that engages the lower transmission mount protrudes into the transmission pan area and may afford an additional 1/2 inch or so of clearance on one side that might make the difference if I back it out (without removing). But mine's gonna require some penetrating oil and a long socket wrench for more leverage to remove.

The sealant was white. Is that a factory sealant color?

Appreciate add'l guidance. I can post more photos if helpful.

[soissisc]

I was thinking remove the dogbone mount and tip the engine, that gets the clearance needed.

I have used a grey and also a black permatex for the pan. No gasket. I can see if I still have a partial tube down there to get the number.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[EuroTec]

[soissisc]

[EuroTec]

[VanGeek]

The pan is out!
Found a wiggle angle to clear all the obstructions.
Not looking fwd to reinserting it without smudging the new seal.
I think that backing-out the bolt that holds the pendulum (aka dogbone) mount will provide an additional 3/4 inch of movement that will make it easier.

But the dogbone bolt seems uninterested in budging at this point. More patience, pb blaster, hammer taps, and possibly some heat I suppose.

Will take some time to clean the oil pan mating surfaces anyhow...

[EuroTec]

Put some sealant on both surfaces. That pan is indeed a tricky one. Practice with it dry and no sealant a few times first.
_________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[VanGeek]

Thanks for the feedback. Do you always put sealant on both surfaces or is this unique to the VR6 pan? I've not done a lot of these, but typically apply sealant to the pan-only and then add a small amt to the case where there are seams.

Just curious -- and thanks again for your recommendations.

[EuroTec]

[VanGeek]

Progress and problems...
Heated up the dogbone mount and was able to back the screw out so the tip is less in-the-way of the oil pan.

And cleaned up the pan and the engine block mating surface.

But test fitting the pan was an epic failure. I futzed around with the pan for 15 minutes trying a variety of angles and couldn't find the right approach to navigate the transmission shaft mount and oil pickup. If I avoid one I seem to interfere with the other.

Going to try again tomorrow. If you've done this before please let me know if you have tips for making it fit. The workshop manual pretty much just says to unbolt and remove it

Photo showing the offending obstructions (taken B4 I cleaned-up the mating surface)

[VanGeek]

SUCCESS!!!! Sort-of... After much fiddling and online research. I found a method to get the pan installed. I'll need to practice a few more times to ensure I don't bump fresh sealant off the pan during the process.

This may be helpful to others so I am sharing the sequence and a few pics.
Step 1: Angle the passenger side of the pan down and slightly forward. Your job here is to angle the rear driver-side corner high enough so the back of the oil pickup fits into the pan.
Step 2: Rotate the passenger side of the pan to the rear and raise it slightly. the back corner of it will interfere with the front cross-member where the passenger-side suspension arm and torsion bar is mounted. Wiggle/fiddle with it and the corner of the pan will eventually slide/fit above it.
Step 3: Wiggle the pan into position while you move it up onto the bottom of the engine. The oil pickup is navigating the internal baffles inside the pan while you do this.

[soissisc]

NICE!
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)