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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:44 pm Post subject: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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Hello everyone,
Which needle/inlet valve size should I use on my 48 IDAs which will be feeding Super Pro heads through match ported intakes? The carbs currently have 180 main jets, 200 air jets, 44mm venturies and F2 emulsion tubes.
I fear, perhaps unjustifiably so, that the 2.0s now in the carbs won't be able to keep up with the fuel demand at high rpms.
If I should run 3.0 or 3.3s, where can I purchase these? CB is sold out of 3.3s at the moment.
Thank you
Ted |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5291 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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I think I had 3.00 in mine , Did ya enlarge the float bowl?
Cheers,Mike _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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Hey Mike, thanks for responding - no the float bowls are completely unmodified and as they came from CB.
Where do I snag a set of those 3.0s? Seems everyone is sold out at present.
Ted |
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VeloMikey Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2012 Posts: 646 Location: So Cal
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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I'll see what I can do about the float bowls I'm limited in my own machining/porting skills, and would have to send them out to someone unless enlarging the bowls is easy.
Thanks for the tip and the link. I'll order up those 3.0s.
These IDAs will be on my 2332 with Super Pros and FK46. I have plans for a 2387 with TF1 case, Wiseco pistons, hogged out AA cylinders, FK89 cam, Street Fighter heads and Geers 51.5s, which already come with the big bowls and 3.3 needles. Until then I'll have to make these 48s work more or less as is.
Ted |
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VeloMikey Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2012 Posts: 646 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:04 am Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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Enlarging the float bowls is pretty simple. remove the wall between the bowl and the void and you are good to go.
_________________ '58 Ghia 2387cc with a Berg / Folts 5 Speed
Ghia Build Thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768748 |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:16 am Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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That looks easier than I thought!
I've got the 51.5s on the way and I'll also take the lids off them to see what's going on and use for comparison. Thank you!
Ted |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:26 am Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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3.0s will be plenty, they kept my 51s with enlarged float bowls fed over the mile. I did have one fail though, something inside fell apart, original weber part.
brad |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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Thanks Brad, the 3.0s are on their way.
Ted |
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King_vw61 Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2018 Posts: 1383 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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3.0's and a good fuel pump and regulator. The 3.0's don't like any more than 3.5psi just like the 2.0's
I keep it under 3psi and -8 line to the reg. -6 would be plenty, _________________ 1961 Ragtop, Autocraft 2783cc for street/strip 10k miles and counting...230.84 HP to the wheels thru Muffler 13.4 to 1 on E85
https://www.instagram.com/king_vw61/?hl=en |
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stealth67vw Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2004 Posts: 1851 Location: Grass Pants, Orygun
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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I have been 12.30s at 108mph in my 2000 pound atreet car with 2.0s. 2276cc with Web 86C, Super Pro heads, 11.4:1 compression. I have 3.0s to install before race season starts this year. _________________ John Bates
JB Machining Services
1967 street Bug 2276 w/ 48 IDAs, 2020lbs with driver
7.76 @ 89.55mph 1/8 mile
12.34 and 108.10 mph 1/4 mile |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:11 am Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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King_vw61 wrote: |
3.0's and a good fuel pump and regulator. The 3.0's don't like any more than 3.5psi just like the 2.0's
I keep it under 3psi and -8 line to the reg. -6 would be plenty, |
Thanks. I still need to work out the fuel system overall. I am so far planning on using a Holley Red into an Aeromotive 13222 1.5 - 5 psi regulator. I'll make sure to keep the pressure to under 3psi as you mentioned.
Ted |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:17 am Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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stealth67vw wrote: |
I have been 12.30s at 108mph in my 2000 pound atreet car with 2.0s. 2276cc with Web 86C, Super Pro heads, 11.4:1 compression. I have 3.0s to install before race season starts this year. |
This is good real-world usage information, thank you. Are you using an AFR gauge and if so does it show any leanness at the top end of the track when using the 2.0?
Also, going slightly off topic, are you using drag radials and is your car still using the 4 speed or a Berg 5 speed? I ask so I can plan my driveline when the time comes. Your combo sounds fast for sure.
Ted |
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Dauz Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010 Posts: 1790
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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No more "fi"59bug? |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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Hm, maybe not lol No fuel injection "fi" or Florida "fl" for me these days. I'm actually more of an "nc59bug" these days haha.
Next chance for going "fi" will be one day when I crank out a turbo setup. Betting though it'll still be carbureted, likely with a 45 DCOE in my collection!
Ted |
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stealth67vw Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2004 Posts: 1851 Location: Grass Pants, Orygun
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Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:53 am Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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fl59bug wrote: |
stealth67vw wrote: |
I have been 12.30s at 108mph in my 2000 pound atreet car with 2.0s. 2276cc with Web 86C, Super Pro heads, 11.4:1 compression. I have 3.0s to install before race season starts this year. |
This is good real-world usage information, thank you. Are you using an AFR gauge and if so does it show any leanness at the top end of the track when using the 2.0?
Also, going slightly off topic, are you using drag radials and is your car still using the 4 speed or a Berg 5 speed? I ask so I can plan my driveline when the time comes. Your combo sounds fast for sure.
Ted |
I have an AEM AFR gauge but I can't see it going down the track. The plugs don't show it going lean. I have the float bowls opened up and run a return style pressure regulator with 3/8" feed and return lines.
I'm running 215/65 M&H DOT bias ply street/strip tires and a standard 4 speed with 4.12 ring and pinion, 3.78 mainshaft ,1.48 3rd and 1.04 4th. A 5 speed would be nice if I drove it on the street more. I have a Berg IRS bus 5 speed that I was going to put in my bug, but it is going into another project. _________________ John Bates
JB Machining Services
1967 street Bug 2276 w/ 48 IDAs, 2020lbs with driver
7.76 @ 89.55mph 1/8 mile
12.34 and 108.10 mph 1/4 mile |
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Ohio Tom Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1657 Location: Marshallville Ohio
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Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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I have found that 3.0's have a hard time holding back more than 3.5psi.
I frequently set the floats 1mm lower to help control them.
Still, they can be finicky. Have a switch on the fuel pump so you can shut it off if she starts to load up from idling too long... |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:53 am Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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Thanks Tom. When I wire up that Holley Red and Aeromotive 1.5 - 6 psi regulator I'll still use my Revolution Electronics controller but will also install the manual shut off switch you mentioned.
I received the 3.0 needles and will install them in these 48s. These carbs still need me to enlarge the float bowl ala what VeloMikey, stealth67vw and others have done.
Ted |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:55 am Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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stealth67vw wrote: |
fl59bug wrote: |
stealth67vw wrote: |
I have been 12.30s at 108mph in my 2000 pound atreet car with 2.0s. 2276cc with Web 86C, Super Pro heads, 11.4:1 compression. I have 3.0s to install before race season starts this year. |
This is good real-world usage information, thank you. Are you using an AFR gauge and if so does it show any leanness at the top end of the track when using the 2.0?
Also, going slightly off topic, are you using drag radials and is your car still using the 4 speed or a Berg 5 speed? I ask so I can plan my driveline when the time comes. Your combo sounds fast for sure.
Ted |
I have an AEM AFR gauge but I can't see it going down the track. The plugs don't show it going lean. I have the float bowls opened up and run a return style pressure regulator with 3/8" feed and return lines.
I'm running 215/65 M&H DOT bias ply street/strip tires and a standard 4 speed with 4.12 ring and pinion, 3.78 mainshaft ,1.48 3rd and 1.04 4th. A 5 speed would be nice if I drove it on the street more. I have a Berg IRS bus 5 speed that I was going to put in my bug, but it is going into another project. |
Stealth with what cutter tool did you make that nice tidy incision in the float bowl? I like that.
Ted |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:11 am Post subject: Re: 48 IDAs 2.0, 3.0 or 3.3 Needle? |
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I ended up using a holley blue pump and a Mallpasi bypass regulator from CB. The regulator has 4 fittings, an in, a return and 2 outlets. I used it a a "T" and ran one outlet to each carb. I used -6AN for the entire system including the return. |
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