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Which VW starter?
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DerrickfromNC1
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:10 pm    Post subject: Which VW starter? Reply with quote

Helping an 85yr old friend that has a 65 356B that he has owned since 1975. Getting in/out of it at his age, bad knees, & being over 6’ has convinced him that the time is right to get it in proper working order to pass on to his daughter.

He brought it by my house today so I could determine where the gas fumes filling up his garage were coming from. I think we resolved that issue after tightening multiple hose clamps and the banjo fittings on the solex carbs.

However when he went to start the car I think the starter decided to take a dump in us. When he turned the ignition switch all we could get was a clunk sound from the starter. I put a test light on the large 12v batt wire and the ignition wire on the solenoid and both tested good. We push started the car and let it run for a minute. Cut it off and it immediately started back up with the ignition switch a few times. However after a few minutes of sitting it would only clunk.
I’ve read that there is a VW beetle 12v starter that is a direct replacement and do you think a worn starter bushing could be the issue?

Thanks
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alanhall
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: Which VW starter?? Reply with quote

Sounds more like a bad or weak battery. Is the car still 6V or has it been converted to 12V?
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DerrickfromNC1
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Which VW starter?? Reply with quote

alanhall wrote:
Sounds more like a bad or weak battery. Is the car still 6V or has it been converted to 12V?


Good question. Currently it is 12volts and I assumed that was standard for a 65 356B but I guess I’m wrong. I messaged the owner to see if he could recall. He’s 85 and has owned this car since 1975 so hopefully he can recall.
Also when he brought the car over we noticed the charging light on his dash was bright red and he wasn’t sure how long it had been on. My battery charger showed the batt at 12v, and that the system was not charging. I thought the current 12v reading would be sufficient to engage the starter multiple times but perhaps not🤔!
Which leads me to the voltage regulator….the one that is on his car looks like a 12v unit for a Porsche 912. Would that be an option for a replacement unit….it cost less than $100.

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DerrickfromNC1
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Which VW starter? Reply with quote

Just spoke with the owner and he said that car was a late 356 and has always been 12v. I told him to hook up his battery charger and let it charge overnight and let’s see what happens!
Also talked with a 356 mechanic and he said that a 12v voltage regulator for a 912 or even a beetle should be compatible.

Next question….does anyone know an experienced carb rebuilder that can do justice to an original set of solex carbs. Meaning not just clean and slap a new set of gaskets on because I can do that. I believe the carbs are leaking around the throttle shaft so looking for someone who can address that. Owner is thinking about buying a $700 set of carbs from eBay.

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alanhall
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Which VW starter? Reply with quote

Carb Rescue in Sedona, AZ has an excellent reputation. 928 204-0507.
I have not personally used them but people who have seem very satisfied.

By the way a 356B would be '60 thru '63, a '65 would be a 356C.

Also per your original question, I don't think there were any common VW starters that would work because you need a 12V starter with a "6Volt gear". They do exist because they were a VW option back in the day but VERY rare. I believe some of the porsche parts places do sell 'high torque" 12 volt starters which mate with the "6 V" flywheel.
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Which VW starter? Reply with quote

If the car was 12 volts from the factory it has a 12 volt flywheel you will want a VW Autostick starter as it doesn't need or use a bushing just like a stock Porsche starter. Before you buy a starter clean the ground straps from battery to ground and trans. to body ground straps as thats the only path back to the battery as the rubber motor mounts insulate the motor/trans. assy..
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Which VW starter? Reply with quote

In the 356 era Porsche used the same flywheel diameter and tooth count (109, I think) for both 6 volt and 12 volt applications (Carrera and Spyders), while VW changed flywheel tooth count (to 130, I think) when they went to 12 volt application. This is why a 12 volt VW starter will not work in a 356. As an aside VW did use the "12 volt" flywheel on '66 ghias which were 6 volt cars and the starter for these were unique in that they were 6 volt with a "12 volt gear"
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DerrickfromNC1
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Which VW starter? Reply with quote

Starbucket wrote:
If the car was 12 volts from the factory it has a 12 volt flywheel you will want a VW Autostick starter as it doesn't need or use a bushing just like a stock Porsche starter. Before you buy a starter clean the ground straps from battery to ground and trans. to body ground straps as thats the only path back to the battery as the rubber motor mounts insulate the motor/trans. assy..


Yes according to the owner this is an original 12v 356. I will check the ground straps this week b4 I tell him to look into purchasing an autostick starter.
From looking at the starter, it has a lot less room to work with than in my 67 beetle which I installed an autostick starter on many years ago.
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Bub
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Which VW starter? Reply with quote

The VW starter will 'work' but does not install into a 356 very well.
The Solenoid is 'clocked' lower than a VW due to the 356 rear package tray being lower.
Viewed from behind, as if the starter is installed a VW solenoid sits at about 2:00 and the 356 one sits a bit lower, 3:00 roughly.
this is the orientation the 356 starter is installed at roughly, solenoid is a bit lower :

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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DerrickfromNC1
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Which VW starter? Reply with quote

Bub wrote:
The VW starter will 'work' but does not install into a 356 very well.
The Solenoid is 'clocked' lower than a VW due to the 356 rear package tray being lower.
Viewed from behind, as if the starter is installed a VW solenoid sits at about 2:00 and the 356 one sits a bit lower, 3:00 roughly.
this is the orientation the 356 starter is installed at roughly, solenoid is a bit lower :

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


With it clocked differently does the solenoid hit the package tray, if not will there be an issue reaching over the starter to the upper mounting bolt? Also the automatic starter sr17 is larger than the regular vw sr15 starter. Will it still fit in the tight confines of a 356? Thursday I will first verify that he does not have a grounding issue & x my fingers that this is his problem.

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Bub
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Which VW starter? Reply with quote

Reaching the top bolt definitely is more difficult.. I mean, the VW starter will NOT fit without major cursing and the solenoid will hit the body.
I just didn’t want to state outright that it won’t fit, because I’m sure someone has done it. There are a couple versions of the auto starter, likely there’s one that would fit. But the savings over just getting a correct one really isn’t a lot when you consider you’re hopefully not going to do it again for a decade or much longer.
On my old 356 I got one of those IMI High torque starters, and the position of the solenoid is adjustable. You can also get them 12V with the 6V gear. I think I got mine from Gene Berg back in the olden days..
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DerrickfromNC1
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Which VW starter? Reply with quote

Sounds like he just needs to get an original 356 12v starter & hope the bushing is ok. I’m doing this as a favor and I draw the line at dropping this motor.

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