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To low or not to low? …that is the question
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WhiteyNocar
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:17 pm    Post subject: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

Finally got around to lowering the front end of the square. I like the look.
So why is there a question… Well I t’s now basically sitting on the bump stops.
I mean just barely, but touching ever so slightly. I know the ride quality will probably suck, which doesn’t bother me terribly because this will most likely be a grocery getter and the occasional cruise night car. The question is will the bump stops be enough to keep the tires from rubbing the fenders when the wheels are turned to almost full lock? Currently there is about 3/8” clearance. And that’s without a full tank and a 230lb driver in the car.
Somebody should maybe talk me out of leaving it and risking hitting a pot hole while making a turn and destroying fenders. This is Michigan and the roads aren’t so great.
Thoughts?

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WhiteyNocar
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

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jaransonT3
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

I don't think the bump stops will prevent 3/8" of travel, especially on Michigan roads. What size wheels and tires are you running? It looks like the offset of the chrome wheels is wrong for a Type 3...not enough offset. Those chrome aftermarket wheels are usually for a beetle with 18 or 23mm of offset compared to the 46mm for a Type 3 wheel. That means the outside of the tire is pushed out close to an inch which leads to the rubbing.

The wheels sure look like they don't have enough offset in the photos.

Only solutions to prevent the front from rubbing, would be:

1. Raise it back up a notch or two.
2. Go to smaller tires, like 175/55R15 or similar (assuming you are running stock 165R15 now
3 Get wheels that are the correct offset for a Type 3.

Option 3 is your best choice to keep it lowered and have a chance of not rubbing. You could also combine Option 2 and 3 for even more clearance.

BTW, where in Michigan are you? I am in Dearborn.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

The biggest issue I had with my 3 outer lowered notch was only having 3/4" clearance to the ground at the frame horns mount. I learned to drive with it, but it cost me a tiered on a cross country trip in the dark when I hit something.
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I also ran a very sort tire.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

couple thoughts on running lower. You for sure can't keep the stock big tires on the front. I like the 165/65-15 as it's the stockish 165 width just smaller diameter. Stock oil shocks like sachs / boge are fine for as low you are / arent. And yes on those wheels - sticking out a bit. You still might be ok with just smaller tires
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WhiteyNocar
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

Great feedback, exactly what I was hoping for.
It would be cool if I didn’t have to buy new wheels just yet…. Besides, CPI1 only has 2 Superspeeds in gunmetal in stock right now.

The tires on the car are 165/80/15’s so a 165/65/15 would probably be the ticket. Just don’t want to recreate the gap between tires and fender lowering it in the 1st place got rid of.

jaransont3- I live in Howell
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

Going off John's list I'd do 2 and 3 combined, and did. I'm currently running 195-60-15's up front On my Notch, and I'm 2 inner spines down. I also removed the bump stop rubbers so I keep the travel of the suspension. In the rear I'm running 205-65-15's to keep the gearing correct (same size as the 165-80-15's). I've been running that combo for a while, and last year I was looking at replacing my fronts (due to age) and found I'm going to go with some 205-55-15's up front that will be shorter than the 195's.
Basically it all boils down to tire size and rim offset to get the combination you want to work. Especially tire size.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

Def seems like your wheel / tyre choice is not your friend here, looks like your going to have probs with wing lip rubbing / arching out.

Im running cut down bump stops on the front, think there about 2/3rds of the original height, I have about 1" of front suspension travel, on the rear I run OEM front bump stops (un cut) an also have >1" travel.

Another thing you prob want to look at is your shocks, OEM will bottom out (if you dont hit the stops 1st) an this wont be nice, shorter Monroe Gas shocks are available off the shelf, cant recall the part numbers sorry.

PS, my fronts do scuff the inner arches on full lock, the wings on lock if I hit a bump or turn to hard, the rears scuff if I have people in the back or hit a hump to fast, all part of the fun,,,

My RH ;-
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

WhiteyNocar wrote:
Great feedback, exactly what I was hoping for.
It would be cool if I didn’t have to buy new wheels just yet…. Besides, CPI1 only has 2 Superspeeds in gunmetal in stock right now.

The tires on the car are 165/80/15’s so a 165/65/15 would probably be the ticket. Just don’t want to recreate the gap between tires and fender lowering it in the 1st place got rid of.

jaransont3- I live in Howell



The wheels you want are not the right offset for a type 3, measure your existing backspace for comparison.

From the CIP site

C32-SS4130-5515-C – CIP SS SUPER SPEED WHEEL W/CENTER AND VALVE STEM – FULLY CHROME PLATED - 15 INCH X 5.5 INCH WIDE - (BACKSPACING 4.23INCH ET+25) 4 BOLT X 130MM

Type 3 wheels are in the ET45 range. Maybe not a huge issue at your height and tires may work. Not sure if you have a friendly tire shop that would mount up a 165/65-15 (continental makes a decent tire in this size) for you to check fitment.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

Here's a pic of my own car. Tire sizes are listed above.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

Lowered 2 inner splines in front.
185x60 & 205x70 tires on 5.5"X15" ET35 Mobelwagen wheels.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

Yeah I noticed the off set on the superspeeds after I posted. For now gonna crank it up a notch and see how it looks. The tires on the car probably only have 100 miles on them, so may as well get a summer out of ‘em.
That’s todays thought, very possible I see a tire sale and if smaller tires achieve the lowered look without rubbing, then maybe the wheels will be in stock and back on sale.
Thanks again for all the responses. I’ll probably post a pic one notch up when I do it.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

I never ran lowered shocks on my dropped cars. Stock oil filled never rode harsh. Bump stops cause ride issues.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

vwfye wrote:
I never ran lowered shocks on my dropped cars. Stock oil filled never rode harsh. Bump stops cause ride issues.


Yup, same here. I've found if you 3 or more splines, then you need lowered shocks. Rob's down that low with 195-50-15's on 8 spokes which have some of the worst offsets you can run on a type 3. His are polished Rocket brand 8 spokes.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

for what it's worth, barndoor bus shocks are the way to go if you do need shorter shocks. They are the shortest - Monroe 5752 8.5 inchs compressed 12.5 extended if my memory sefves me right. it's around there anyways. They are also very inexpensive, any local Advance / orieley / etc should beable to get them if they don't have them on the shelf
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

Erik G wrote:
for what it's worth, barndoor bus shocks are the way to go if you do need shorter shocks. They are the shortest - Monroe 5752 8.5 inchs compressed 12.5 extended if my memory sefves me right. it's around there anyways. They are also very inexpensive, any local Advance / orieley / etc should beable to get them if they don't have them on the shelf


Rob is running lowered link pin style bug shocks on his car. Oil style at that. I can't remember who he got them from as it's been a few years now.

His goal was to get the car so low it would push a beer can (laying on it's side) with the front beam. When he crossed a rough set of RR tracks, he caught a piece of wood from one of the RR ties. That's when you know you're low, or is it too low?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

Like Eric G said, 5752.
I'm running these in the front.
Still need to figure out what to do with the rears.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JWQF6W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
Erik G wrote:
for what it's worth, barndoor bus shocks are the way to go if you do need shorter shocks. They are the shortest - Monroe 5752 8.5 inchs compressed 12.5 extended if my memory sefves me right. it's around there anyways. They are also very inexpensive, any local Advance / orieley / etc should beable to get them if they don't have them on the shelf


Rob is running lowered link pin style bug shocks on his car. Oil style at that. I can't remember who he got them from as it's been a few years now.



There really isn't a "lowered link pin" shock for VW's. I promise, nobody decided they are going to manufacture a $20 shock for lowered link pin VW's. What they did instead was find a short shock already made, paint it white, and put it in an empi / buckpack / whatever box. The 5752 I recommended above is an interchange for some Chryslers from the 30's through 50's, as well as barndoor buses and early split bugs. They are the old school oil type without the empi box and mark up
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

vbrad26 wrote:
Like Eric G said, 5752.
I'm running these in the front.
Still need to figure out what to do with the rears.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JWQF6W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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You can still run stock size in the rear. Sachs / Boge for oil filled stock ride, It's the only spot I will recommend KYB GR2 or whatever new name they are calling them this year for a little better performance. I otherwise don't like KYB shocks at all
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: To low or not to low? …that is the question Reply with quote

Erik G wrote:



You can still run stock size in the rear. Sachs / Boge for oil filled stock ride, It's the only spot I will recommend KYB GR2 or whatever new name they are calling them this year for a little better performance. I otherwise don't like KYB shocks at all


I have stock size in the rear but they are just some cheap gas shocks I believe. They're blue, not sure what brand. They seemed fine for a bit but the more I drove the more it seemed like they were going bad. Could just be in my head though.
Are the oil shocks that much better?
I also don't mind harsh. I've read that KYB's can ride a little rough. But look at the car, I'm not worried about that lol
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