Jeff's Bus Stocker Plus

[Clatter]

I’m not worried about this cam going flat.
Mild cam, single springs.. No big deal.

Plus it won’t take much setup work.
Valvetrain is mostly stock.
Couple times around tops. Lube will still be there.

These aren’t K800s.
Not 550# over the nose.

You guys are gonna have Jeff all scared I’m “doing it all wrong”.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[txoval]

Put more oil in there at start up so that the cam is bathing in it during the first start up…look down your pushrod tubes and fill until you see oil starting to enter the tube

[Clatter]

Ever since i started using the Brad Penn break-in oil,
Plus making sure it has oil pressure before installing pushrods,
And lighting it right off to 2000RPM,
Haven’t had a cam go flat in years.

I’m convinced the ZDDP thing was our issue all along, though, really.

That other stuff i do just because.

Having a matched set of Engle cam/lifters with the coating and all,
Ain’t skeered one bit!
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Brian_e]

I always worry about the new guys who are super excited to get the case sealed up, but have no grasp on the rocker geometry yet. They are gonna be spinning that thing over 200 times trying to get their geometry figured out, and wipe all the cam lube off the lobes in the process.

Brian
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www.type-emotorsports.com

[Clatter]

The same thing’ll happen if you don’t have your ignition or fuel dialed in,
And it doesn’t light right off.
Many’ll crank and crank a bunch trying to figure it out.
With all 8 springs in that’d be worse than my geometry.

For the most part,
I haven’t heard of too many flat cams lately.
Not like 20 years ago at least.

Good thing that issue got figured out.
It was getting bad back in the day!
Anyone remember Jake passing the hat to fund running his spintron?
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[txoval]

I’m still convinced it was a manufacturing error with the hardness, not the oil

That said, I still use a break in oil (Brad Penn) and the Driven DT50 afterwards

[drumbum68]

Just watched a vid of a good 6 mins of cranking a fresh motor before firing....lmao.

You are allowed to put gas in the carb first.....
You are allowed to crank for oil pressure without plugs in and rockers off.....

Setting a distrib by sight usually gets you within 5* of final timing

That vid was a special case though......didn't have a 32/36,...it was a 26/27...lol

[Clatter]

My run stand has an electric pump on purpose..

Getting stoked to light this thing off!

Trying to only work on it when Jeff is here,
So he can learn and also do some of the work.
Always better to learn by doing.

But he's been pretty busy lately,
And this thing is just sitting here looking at me....
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Had a day out in the shop so i used it.

First job was setting rocker shaft end-play.
While i can get .001 easily with a type 4 and the sand-able aluminum spacers,
The thinnest shims in this type 1 rocker kit are .015,
So, if they're a few thou clearance I'm feeling pretty good.

Geometry on these Mazda Courier feet is kinda different,
So I'll do some details, and maybe get some input.

First off, this here is why i like these ball swivel feet.
They get pressurized oil to the ball, unlike elephant feet, or stock adjusters.

Never really understood why Mother VW drilled to the adjuster,
But then it just dead-heads to the adjuster screw?

Oil hole in rocker arm can intersect with oil hole in ball-foot adjuster.
It needs to be installed at just the right depth.
Weld blob might not always exactly indicate where the rocker oil hole is located.

This means that, unlike elephant feet, you don't clearance for the foot.
The foot has to stay in the right spot to align oil holes.
Therefore, you end up with more spacers under the shafts,
Because the rockers don't get 'sunk' by clearancing.

Said another way, feet stick down pretty far below the rocker.

Grabbed a couple adjustable pushrods and started ciphering.

Shims that come with the kit are .065 thick.
That's way not enough. At half lift the rocker hasn't come parallel,
Or even close to it.
Now,
More and more, I'm subscribing to the mark tucker geometry school,
Where this is OK.
it makes good sense that you want more adjuster misalignment when the valve in on the seat vs. full lift,
Where thrust forces are greater.

Still,
I stacked more and more shims to get the adjuster close to parallel to the valve stem at half lift.

Then i started looking for some pushrods.
Got a collection of different sizes going now.

Whadda ya know, some of these were dang close!
Took a pretty big stack of shims,
But it's still more than half lift when the adjuster is parallel to the stem.

Pretty close, but still more than half lift to get the adjuster parallel.

Damn close, though.
Since these pushrods are here and free and work, I'm running with it.

Bigass stack of shims though.

They don't foul the valve cover,
And there's still some rocker stud threads sticking thru the nuts.

Crazy stack of shims and long pushrods for a narrow motor, though.

What you guys think?
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Since the longblock was buttoned i did some tin fitting.

Welded cracks and made little filler pieces for heat riser parts.

Bunch of little fitting to be done.

Dang intake manifolds wanted to totally fight going past the top tins,
until i remembered we had chopped heads and decked case.
Need to shorten top tins so they don't foul case.

Little bit o' body work,
And ready for powder coat.

Vroom!

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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Brian_e]

McMaster has super good quality rocker shims down to .004”. About 6 different thickness’. They are about $6-8 for a pack of 25. I have a whole selection put together. It makes loose zero rocker end play really easy.

No comment on the adjuster feet or rocker geo.

Brian
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www.type-emotorsports.com

[Clatter]

Aw come on, Brian,
You’re not doing that “if you can’t say anything nice” crap are you?
This is the Samba!


What about having .151” worth of shims under the stands?
That’s more than I’ve ever run before by far.

Makes me think the stand nuts might work lose...

Thought about finding a small (carbide?) burr,
Ball tip,
Small like fits in a Dremel,
And bell-mouth the oil feed hole in the rocker where it hits the threads.
That would allow me to sink the rockers more and use less shim.

Maybe slot the adjuster threads or something?

Also could put more Tucker Shift in the geometry..
Make the right angle happen farther past half lift..

Either way means (buying) shorter pushrods.

151 is an unlucky number for me…
Makes me skeered anytime that number comes up!

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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Alstrup]

Sigh!.
Why do you guys keep using those stupid Mazda style adjusters?
And why do you guys keep NOT grinding the protrusion down?

- Grinding the rockers flush and using some proper Porsche style elephant feet adjusters will elimminate at least half the need for underlaying shims. It will ALSO result in the need for pushrods that are about 2-3 mm shorter along with reduce valve train noise with about 50%.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[94touring]

Just to echo, I went through this on a motor redo not long ago that came with those courier style. It was shim city till I ground down the face of the rockers, which unfortunately leaves that oiling system of those couriers not lined up once you can back them out. Elephant feet went in and now that more threads were exposed on the adjusting end, trimmed them down and dremeled in a new groove to be able to screw them. It's a more work but you won't have all the shims and the push rod was shorter as stated too.

[oprn]

This subject is always controversial. I would LOVE to have Porsche adjusters on all my engines but the cost/benefit ratio is not there for a hobby car. It's that simple!

As for lining up the oil hole... that would be ideal... but is it essential? Oil will travel the full length of the threads, they will get oiled, not as much but it will be there.

On the geometry, I think Mark Tucker is right.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Brian_e]

For what this engine is, the parts inside of it, and what is it is expected to do, there are no better parts you could put in it than stock OE adjuster screws in good shape, and stock aluminum pushrods cut to length.

No need to try and re-invent the wheel, add shitty quality parts, and make one side of your valve guides royally screwed while the other side is untouched.

Keep it simple. That is what VW did. Keep those adjusters under the hood of a Mazda, or preferably the bottom of a mossy swamp. 🤗

Brian
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www.type-emotorsports.com

[Clatter]

That's more like it!

This is Santa Cruz, California, people.

We try to create a more accepting and understanding environment for adjusters of all kinds.

We must be inclusive and embrace diversity.

This type of divisive rhetoric must stop!

The world will be a far better place when no adjuster feels excluded or repressed,
And is able to express itself in any place at any time in any way!

Join me in kumbaya here.. Jeff's got his bongos.


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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[boxer74]

Clatter, you sure about that? Won't California be the first to outlaw internal combustion engines?? Not very inclusive of any valve adjusters at all!
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74 Super
84 Westy

[Clatter]

I'm thinking maybe if we put together a bundle of feathers,
From different species of wild birds,
And hang it from the rear-view mirror,
That might help the valvetrain last?



Maybe if we add some colored beads?
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Remember, this is a split bus..

Instead of containing rocker shaft oil or eliminating stand shims,
We need quartz!

The right quartz crystal has been helping buses like this achieve reliability for almost 60 years!
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?