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drumbum68
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:01 pm    Post subject: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

Have you seen this Vizard vid?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4w9fmb41Wc
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modok
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

I saw the thumbnail, didn't watch it, because I assume it's the same info he's already put out there 20 years ago in his books and magazine articles.
But I did watch the one where he used TFX sensors to develop an unequal length header, that's kinda new, and halfway a tease, but it doesn't much apply to a flat four.
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94touring
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

First time seeing that one but I did just custom make an exhaust using a straight through 2.25" OD that feeds into a 2 in/out ID turbo muffler that he talks about in the vid. Wanted something that last longer than the empi junk I had used and wasn't obnoxiously loud. I haven't been able to test it yet but should have it on the road in a couple weeks.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

I have seen that information before about the time I was considering a change of muffler on my sand rail. I had measured the back pressure with the 2" glass pack style muffler I had on it and found it much higher than expected and it was not that quiet.

Based on his video I bought a 2 1/4" Flow Master swaged down to 2" on both inlet and outlet and ran some back pressure tests. While the back pressure was not zero is was down to about 10% of what I had with the glass pack. The surprise to me was the huge reduction in exhaust noise. Now the dominant sound on that engine is the cooling fan!

Unfortunately I have no way of testing, comparing and documenting the power output difference between the two but my butt tells me that the top end is much stronger.
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drumbum68
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

Would have been nice if he did testing of dual quiet packs......lol
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

I used to run those walker super turdblows. 1 pass and all the guts were busted loose. I would hole saw the ends and pull out the busted loose preferated peices and weld it back up. they were not ment for highperformance usage, just for the guy tht wanted to sound bad when he drove his stock shit down the road. after a few sets they stoped warrantying them. and that was on my 9600 rpm street small block with the biggest walker super turbos made& full exhaust mufflers at the rear of the car. ( engine in front)
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

It works, and I have been shouting about this for a looong time, but everybody just wanna have a Sidewinder because its kewl.
As I have written many times, if you get the exhaust right, - and the intake length too, you can elimminate 75% of the dreaded afr dip in the driving rpm. and thereby gain usable power and at the same time keep or increase upper rpm power.
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drumbum68
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

Does anyone know how the big ugly Tri-Mill offroad type mufflers flow?
They look goofy how they orient them,...I assume they have to so they fit.

The Phoenix merged dual muff offroad header has the look.
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GS guy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

Fascinating discussion by Mr. Vizard. I've always been intrigued by muffler design - not sure why, just something I find extremely interesting. How to get good performance without excessive noise.
Per the video - a 2L VW would need a terminator box slightly over 1/2 gallon in volume, not super large! I wonder it the terminator box could be fed directly into a free flowing muffler and maintain the advantages of adequate flow and quiet? Maybe even an integral terminator and muffler in one case? Seems like that could work well coming of a sidewinder (or off road style) header?
Jeff
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drumbum68
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

The exhausts on my vanagons are similar,.......gutted cat chamber into muff on one and an oversize "test pipe" on the other.

barely similar
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2364616
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94touring
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

74 Thing wrote:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2364616


I don't have a picture readily available yet, but what I put together is very similar. Depending on afr dip I may weld up a box (8x volume) in place of my straight through muffler which is already 4x9x14, and see how it does for dip and noise. The magnaflow super turbo muffler is a bit large and was a tight fit on a bus with my configuration.
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drumbum68
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

74 Thing wrote:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2364616



I'm assuming the walker resonator is a glass pack....
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

These guys offer a dual inline muffler set up as well:
https://hangarcountry.com/
http://www.ttexhausts.com/vw-hideaway-exhaust/
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67rustavenger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

74 Thing wrote:
These guys offer a dual inline muffler set up as well:
https://hangarcountry.com/
http://www.ttexhausts.com/vw-hideaway-exhaust/

Looks like the hangarcountry exhausts, only come in, in 37mm (1.5") diameter.

I do like a left side exhaust outlet, much more than a right side hideaway exit.

The TT exhausts are $$$$!
I already have an over priced exhaust for my performance engine.
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19-VW-74
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

drumbum68 wrote:


74 Thing wrote:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2364616


I'm assuming the walker resonator is a glass pack....


Yes, that's my exhaust setup. The Walker resonator is a glasspack.


Link


oprn wrote:
I had measured the back pressure with the 2" glass pack style muffler I had on it and found it much higher than expected and it was not that quiet.


I picked a Walker glasspack/resonator specifically because it was the only one I could find that was perforated inside, rather than louvered. I sent back a glasspack from AP Exhaust because it was louvered.

Here's some info that has been floating around the internet so long that the original source is probably gone.

###############################################

Muffler Flow Testing

All tests via an independent lab
All tests @ 15” water column

2 “ Straight Pipe 283 CFM
2 ¼ “ Straight Pipe 365 CFM
2 ½ “ Straight Pipe 521 CFM

2 ¼” Typical Bent tailpipe 268 CFM
2 ½” Typical Bent Tailpipe 417 CFM

2 ¼” Inlet/Outlet_ Glass Pack Tips- No Louvers- Smooth 274 CFM
2 ¼” Inlet/Outlet- Glass Pack Tips-Louvered 133 CFM
Same as above set for reverse flow 141 CFM
2 ¼” Cherry Bomb 239 CFM
2 ½” Cherry Bomb 294 CFM

2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Dynomax Super Turbo 278 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Ultraflow Bullet 512 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Gibson Superflow 267 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Flowmaster ( 2 Chamber) 249 CFM
2 ½” Inlet Outlet Flowmaster ( 3 Chamber) 229 CFM
2 ¼” Inlet/Outlet Thrush CVX 260 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Maremount Cherry Bomb 298 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Hooker Aero Chamber 324 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Hooker Max Flow 521 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Borla Turbo 373 CFM
2 1/2" Inlet/Outlet Magnaflow 284 CFM

Standard OEM 2 ¼” Inlet/Outlet 138-152 CFM
Standard OEM 2 ½” Inlet/Outlet 161-197 CFM
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oprn
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Mufflers.... Reply with quote

That's pretty quiet!
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