Drift brake aka turning brakes

[Wulfthang]

I'm wanting to replace the turning brake on my rail because it doesn't work very well. It seems to be very hard to get any reaction from it. I asked about that here and it was suggested that it's because the pistons are the large ones. Smaller ones would work easier. (It doesn't make any sense to me. Did I misunderstand?)

I'm thinking about using two drift brake set ups. Has anybody done this? Any problems?

[jsturtlebuggy]

What brand of steering brake do you have?
Most early steering brakes were 5/8in(very close to 16mm) in size and worked well with 17 and 19mm rear wheel. I have used them with 22 and 23mm wheels too. Makes for easy to pull or push handles, oh though you more handle further.
Since the use of disc brakes have become more common to use on buggies, 3/4 and 7/8in size steering brakes are being used.
If you using a small wheel cylinder with a large diameter steering brakes, handle will move shorter distance and harder to pull.
It the same principle of hydraulic for master cylinder sizing.

My Dad made his own steering brake in the early 1970s using two 17mm Bug master cylinders. It worked great.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[Wulfthang]

My current one will move a short distance to take up the slack and then it goes hard. It does affect the proper rear wheel but I have to crank on it and even then, it doesn't lock it up. I can lock all four with the pedal. All four wheels are disc with the two piston calipers. (Empi?)

The steering brake unit has no markings on it. It was gummy when I got it but I cleaned it out and the seals were good so I used it. I think they were 7/8". It works but it's a lot of work to make it work!

The new ones that I'm looking at, are on Fleabay. I tried posting a link but it's about two pages long for some reason. Just plug in "Universal Car Red Racing Aluminum Hydraulic Handbrake Drift Hand Brake Parking" for $34.53. They look pretty sharp, have lots of adjustments and a parking brake lock. I'm thinking of trying a pair of them. Has anybody else ever tried "drift brakes" instead of turning brakes. Same principle, right?

[jsturtlebuggy]

The drift brake on EBay looks it will work as a pair for steering brakes. I could not find the diameter of piston bore. If it 3/4in or smaller should work well..
A 7/8in size steering brake is sized for 4 and 6 piston calipers and the way you are describing the feel is normal for the setup you have.

I had a Sand Miester single handle steering brake that used Master cylinders like those used in the drift brake in 5/8in size and worked well.
And I have a buggy now with the Empi 2 piston disc brakes using a CNC single handle 5/8in size that works, the handle pulls/pushes a little further then it would if was a 3/4in size.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[Wulfthang]

The one I'm looking at has a "0.75" on the side of the M/C. I ordered two of them so we'll see if they work. These things look like they have a lot of adjustments for the handle. For $35, it's worth the test!

[jsturtlebuggy]

Please post after you install them telling all of use how work for you.
Price for the two is a lot cheaper the Empi and much cheaper then a JaMar setup.
I do wish that someone would have bought CNC before Chuck Neal closed it down.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[Wulfthang]

How about I do a little build thread on them? I paid less than $70 including shipping for two of these.

The piston housing has a 0.075 stamped on it so I'm pretty sure it's a 3/4" bore. The picture above doesn't show that but on the ones I ordered, it does. Plus, my M/C's are chrome. That makes it go faster! Their application chart shows all import cars so I'm betting that the hose connections are metric.

It looks like it has a crap load of adjustments for the handle, both in the middle and at the bottom end.

I'm not sure I trust the "Ratchet mechanism for usages of normal hand brakes" system though. It looks like a hook and pawl system. I may disable it since mine will be mounted down between the seats and not really accessible anyway. I'll just keep using my "Redneck Hand Brake". It's a cord tied to the roll bar that I use to hold the steering brake in the up position to lock a wheel.

Of course, once I get them in my hands, I may change my mind! We shall see.

[Bad_chopper]

[Wulfthang]

Nope, I'm not misunderstanding how hydraulics work! I never understood them so how could I misunderstand them? Nah, not true. I do understand how they work but I'm no expert on them. That's why I asked here.

My current steering brake barely works and then only if I crank on it. I can't lock up a back wheel on a hard dirt road. It has to get better! It was suggested that it's because the brake is possibly an old CNC maybe 7/8". Beats me! All I know is that my current brake is almost useless and I need it for some of the areas that I go into.

I think I'll have enough room to mount those two drift brakes side by side. If not, I'll mount them piggy back and machine new handles to compensate. I'll figure something out. Maybe I'll mount them on the ceiling so they look like flap controls on an old Curtis Flying Boat! No wait. That'll interfere with the pop in/out turret!

[PhillipM]

Probably just needed a smaller cylinder then.

[Wulfthang]

I finally finished installing my new Drift Brakes aka Turning Brakes. I put in all new pedal/master cylinder assemblies and rubber hoses. I used a dual M/C brake pedal set up so I can adjust the brake bias separately. I put in a remote bias adjuster too. I was concerned about the cable from the remote adjuster conflicting with the clutch pedal but a little notch fixed that.

This is the new steering brake set up. One for each side. The valve assembly zip tied to the top of it, is the selector for the fuel tanks. Yes, that's JB Weld slopped around the fittings. I had to use a lot of epoxy as a filler for another project and had some left over so I used it as an extra strengthener. The fittings were solid and sealed without it.

I had to mount the dual set up a little further back to get enough clearance between the seats. I had to make an extension for the handles. That's 1/8" Aluminum in a ladder type assembly. Very strong.

I still need to straighten up the lines some and put some anti vibration padding in there.

I did have some clearance problems and had to remove the adjuster knob from the side of the passenger seat. The Aluminum strap replaces that.

I'm doing a lot of work to this thing. When I originally put it together, I wasn't sure I was going to like it so I took some short cuts aka cheap routes. Now I've decided that I like it so I'm replacing some of that stuff and rebuilding other things.

Regarding the drift/turn brake set up: I paid thirty five dollars for each one. Then I paid about thirty bucks trying to find adapters for the weird sized fittings. I gave up on that and tapped the holes out to 1/8" Pipe. That worked fine and adapters to VW brake lines were easy to find. The total was $120 dollars but if I had gone straight to to the 1/8" fittings, it would have totaled $90.

Overall, they seem to be built pretty rugged with a huge lot of adjustments. The bolts were all kind of loose though. I took the M/C's apart when I tapped them out and they seem to be well made inside. The only real concern that I had with them, is that there did not seem to be very much free play when at rest. I modified the plunger shaft to give it about 1/4" of clearance.

Some might not think it was worth the work and it may not be to them but it is to me. I like making stuff work.

This engine is a Ford V6 Cologne. I wanted to replace the single fan belt with a dual belt set up but dual belt crank pulleys were non existent so I made my own.

This is the notch that I ground into the clutch pedal to clear the brake bias adjuster cable.

I should have it back on the road and trail within a few weeks. I'll do an evaluation of the new turn brakes then. (That means I will take it out on the trails and wring the crap out of it!!)

[72Pstroke]

What is the valve on top of the turning brake levers?

[Wulfthang]

That's the selector valve for the fuel tanks. I have a five gallon tank in the front and a twelve gallon tank behind the seats. That valve switches from one to the other.

[CrazyTestPilot]

The cool thing about those levers is that you can go with a large bore master and then just make the handle longer, giving you a mechanical advantage as well as some bull stopping brakes. I have a similar custom system I like alot.

[Wulfthang]