| Author |
Message |
Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1895
Location: PNW
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:55 pm Post subject: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
 |
|
I noticed this wear while removing the hatch for Jam painting.
Any bushing or other ideas to repair this wear? the Pin is getting pretty worn, and the strut hole is pretty oblonged...
The real solution involves cutting out the welds for the plate and replacing the pin with a new one, but I am hoping a simpler solution is available to install a bushing and ream the strut to the new bushing size, or something like that.
Thanks,
Paul
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1895
Location: PNW
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
I was just thinking about this. What about a screw in post? Cut off the old pin, drill and tap and screw in a new post?
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32576
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanis13
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3091
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
| Franklinstower wrote: |
| I was just thinking about this. What about a screw in post? Cut off the old pin, drill and tap and screw in a new post? |
the tap surface is probably too thin for a good hold. If you drilled and put threaded pin with a nut in the back gap that should suffice. If you did that you could put in a ball pin and use standard struts with a ball cup fitting
...that said, what I'd really do is I'd put some grease on like Dave said and run a pool over the next 30-60 years on when it will actually break.
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanis13
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3091
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
also, looks like your strut is running right against the bracket...there are usually rubber washers on both sides of the strut eye (and a metal washer under the C-clip)
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5911
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1895
Location: PNW
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
I found 8 x 10mm bushings. The pin is 8 mm, drilled out the strut to 10 mm. All should be good for a while.
I'll build up the pin with some all metal filler before I slide the bushing on.
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DuncanS
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
Weld, grind and file.
Duncan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
4Gears4Tires
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3018
Location: MD
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
Mine looked similar. I added grease so it slips instead of wears. If it starts bending or looking too thin sleeving it or adding weld are certainly options.
_________________
'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
korkwood
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2005
Posts: 63
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
I was about to install new struts when noticed significant wear of strut pins on my Syncro hatch
Following suggestion about adding a bushing i fouind perfectly sized 8mmx10mmx10mm long hardened stainless steel bushings from Misumi part JBK10-8-10 $7.34 a piece. Not planning to weld, will just slide bushings in and drill holes to 10MM, grease and install for another 10 years or more. It will outlast me |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9603
Location: Western WA
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
Good point about the grease!
For dry use, maybe drill out the strut and add a bronze bushing.
Maybe there's a bronze bushing that can be heated/slipped onto the shaft.
Or epoxied on, covering the worn area.
Where there's no wear on the shaft, but you WILL have to enlarge your strut holes as you replace them.
Another way is to add a rear spare tire carrier, to discourage willy-nilly rear hatch opening.
 (rear spare denier with 29" wheel-envy)
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4771
Location: Bemidji, MN
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
the OE struts have a high and a low pressure strut, the combination of which VW felt was the best lift to difficulty closing ratio.
if you continue with high/low pressure struts, put the high pressure one on the other side and the low one on the worn side. lube both with high solids moly paste.
i'm running 2 high pressure struts to eliminate the sagging-after-two-years issue and to hold up the rear hatch tent better. it's a tad difficult to pull down but i have long ape arms and not an issue. a bit more for my vertically challenged wife but she still manages.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 1558
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
Thats what happens when it dont get lubricated, failing to lubricate is abuse. The door hinges and latch mechanism too, even the wiper shafts should be lubed regularly . A bit of oil or grease on a regular basis goes a long way. graphite in the locks also.
for this abused pivot point, get new gas struts and grease the pivot point, add the plastic spacer washers if missing. it will probably still be functional. If you fix it, well I say weld it up, then grind back to shape. but Id simply get a new strut, grease it and run as is with the plastic spacers installed. an other fix will be to weld in a replacement pivot point.
Then go-ahead and lubricate the other afore mentioned other moving bits on the van. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
korkwood
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2005
Posts: 63
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
Responding to comments,
Lubricating pivot pin parts will not prevent wear significantly. Whatever lube will be squeezed out right away under high pressure created by weight of the hatch and strut force. My Vanagon is 39 years old and pin wear is normal. VW never planned on people keeping Vanagons that long and did not care about designing replaceable parts. Lube it, just don't expect it will prevent wear completely. Welding and shaping pin is a hard way to address pin wear, not something most of us ar capable of. Adding a bushing is very easy to do and thanks to larger diameter of rotating parts wear will be reduced even more.
AfA using bronze bushing it will wear out way too quickly to be useful. Bronze bushings are intended to be use for rotating systems low load applications Hardened steel is much more useful and lasting for static application
I gave up on VW idea of using low/high force struts long time ago, it did not make any sense to me, wanted only open or closed hatch and now use Stabilus 600N force struts that work well and last awhile compared to no brand struts from well known vendors.
However i totaly agree that lubricating moving lock parts is essential for the function especially sliding door and rear hatch |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 1558
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
| korkwood wrote: |
Responding to comments,
Lubricating pivot pin parts will not prevent wear significantly. Whatever lube will be squeezed out right away under high pressure created by weight of the hatch and strut force. My Vanagon is 39 years old and pin wear is normal. VW never planned on people keeping Vanagons that long and did not care about designing replaceable parts. Lube it, just don't expect it will prevent wear completely. Welding and shaping pin is a hard way to address pin wear, not something most of us ar capable of. Adding a bushing is very easy to do and thanks to larger diameter of rotating parts wear will be reduced even more.
AfA using bronze bushing it will wear out way too quickly to be useful. Bronze bushings are intended to be use for rotating systems low load applications Hardened steel is much more useful and lasting for static application
I gave up on VW idea of using low/high force struts long time ago, it did not make any sense to me, wanted only open or closed hatch and now use Stabilus 600N force struts that work well and last awhile compared to no brand struts from well known vendors.
However i totaly agree that lubricating moving lock parts is essential for the function especially sliding door and rear hatch |
Actually lubrication will help a lot to reduce wear, be it these pivot points, hinges or locks. I regularly lubricate these hatch lift strut points and have very little wear, despite frequent use of the hatch. Run them dry and expect much more rapid wear. I have never found the lube to be "completely squeezed out" during my relubrication routine.
If you dont weld, there are a lot of places that do weld for a modest fee.
As for static applications, this is not a static application. There are moving parts here.
Lube will also help slow down rust be repelling moisture and excluding oxygen. Rust will cause wear to accelerate.
Hardened steel bushings with no lube will rapidly wear the other softer part.
Make it a point to lube at least at every oil change, a drop or two of engine oil will work as will grease. Your van will return the good care with less problems and wear.
Run it dry and watch it die.
Thus I do say to lube away without delay, then your Van will be A.O.K., giving you more time to play, and that should make your day.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
korkwood
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2005
Posts: 63
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
There is no modest fee welding. If you find it share. It is PITA to shape pin after welding. Great if you know how to do it, most people don't so it is not practical.
Static means it is not rotating constantly like in motor
Lube is squeezed out of pressure areas, i am not talking about washers but cylindrical contact. "running dry" was designed for this and it lasted very long time.
Hardened parts is the solution, pin is hardened as designed by VW. Strut wear is expected and it looses force long before it is worn out mechanically.
I will not repeat it again, just trying to help others make correct choices.
30 years of mechanical engineering under my belt so i know what i am talking about |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 1558
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
| korkwood wrote: |
There is no modest fee welding. If you find it share. It is PITA to shape pin after welding. Great if you know how to do it, most people don't so it is not practical.
Static means it is not rotating constantly like in motor
Lube is squeezed out of pressure areas, i am not talking about washers but cylindrical contact. "running dry" was designed for this and it lasted very long time.
Hardened parts is the solution, pin is hardened as designed by VW. Strut wear is expected and it looses force long before it is worn out mechanically.
I will not repeat it again, just trying to help others make correct choices.
30 years of mechanical engineering under my belt so i know what i am talking about |
I am sorry your arse is in pain upon shaping the pin. A grinder works nicely, even a dremel tool with a stone wheel or sanding disc or drum will work. Sand paper wrapped around a stick will work too, but that is slow. Since the welds tend to be hard, a file often wont work.
Welding is a practical solution, I will leave it to you to find a welder, and to find a way to pay for it, but you might try asking at a muffler shop, they usually have a MIG welder handy, which is perfect for this repair. 20 bucks a side might be the cost, maybe less, maybe more.
Sure you can place a hardened bushing over the pin, ( The more correct engineering term will be a "sleeve" in this case) then drill out the end of the strut oversized to slip over the hardened sleeve. Then lube it to reduce wear of both parts, the sleeve and strut, else you will be back to prematurely worn parts.. But the downside is everytime you install new struts, you will need to enlarge the the hole in the strut to fit your sleeve that you placed over the worn pin.
Of course those sleeves dont grow on trees, so you may have to actually spend some coin and buy them, and of course make sure you get a nice tight fit so the sleeve remains statically in place on the pin. Of course to get a nice tight fit that wont move around further wearing the pin you will want to get an accurate measurement of the pin diameter so the inside diameter of the sleeve is correct. That maybe a pain for someone that does not have tools such as a micrometer or caliper. But yes that can work, and last a long time if you lube it
For me I rather restore the pin size, and not have to modify the struts. But since I have regularly lubed the pin, there is very little wear on my Van, so no problem on my Van, it is good.
To say lubrication wont work here is ludicrous.
30 years, haha, I call that a junior engineer. But even a junior engineer should understand the value of lubrication on moving parts. My 4 1/2 decades trumps your 3 decades. You were in grade school when I got my degree.
cheers.
And static means static, i.e. no motion, your terminology is corrupted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9603
Location: Western WA
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
| korkwood wrote: |
| There is no modest fee welding. If you find it share. It is PITA to shape pin after welding. |
I weld lots of stuff.
I would rather not weld that because there's no good way to re-shape the pin.
Maybe filing it a bit if the welding was 'careful'. Yeah that little drum sander on the dremel...
And it might melt that body-sealant and make a mess.
Depends what you're doing with the van.
Is it being restored? Will that area be repainted?
It's feasible that just a simple dab of grease every year would prevent any and all further wear.
| Franklinstower wrote: |
| I'll build up the pin with some all metal filler before I slide the bushing on. |
I don't have a lot of faith that a bushing will remain in that narrow bore.
Failure won't leave you on the roadside though.
Probably depends if you are a "serial engine-cover-opener."
If the bushing won't stay in the 10mm bore, maybe you can find an 8mm sleeve for the shaft, and epoxy it on the shaft. And then your new 10mm bore runs on the enlarged 10mm pin. And you're stuck with boring all your replacement struts from now on.  Probably not a big effort, but ya gotta find that 10mm OD sleeve.
In my foggy memory, you were preparing for body/paint?
If yes, I think the sleeve would be a better bet.
I'ma grease my vans (if I remember....) thanks for the post.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 1558
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
A mig welder when set right wont cause much heat damage. just hit it quickly in small passes with ample cooling time between. A wet rag can quench the heat away before the heat reaches the seam sealer. I have repaired simular on other vehicles this way. The tricky part is the grinding, but it can be done, takes a steady hand, and if you over grind, then back to the welder to refill the low spot. Dremel with a drum shaped bit is probably the best tool for this.
This method is a nice way to restore it back to near new condition, but in many cases if wear is not bad, just grease or oil it to avoid further rapid wear. if ignored and wear continues, eventually it may fail, which might give one a headache, ouch. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9603
Location: Western WA
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Rear Hatch Strut Pin Wear |
|
|
Mostly agreed. It depends how far around the bottom/back side the wear is, I'd have to see it. Quite sure I could do it. It sounds like you could too.
This is not a job for "slipping a $20 bill to the guy at Midas Muffler Shoppe".
If Mr Franklins wants to visit and coach me about getting my rear disc brakes on my van....
As he as offerred many times...
I'd do the welding and we could chat about the finish grinding.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
