Deep Sump Removal Assembly

[TwangBus]

So I removed my EMPI deep sump to replace the gasket. Not realizing the long hex nut bolt may have had a nut on it's back side to hold the oil tube. The tube assembly was rigid when I checked it but now I'm second guessing my work. Should I go look again? Magnet?

On the same issue I found no info on how tight those hex bolts should be, or what type thread adhesive is best.
Any help would be appreciated!

[Wildthings]

Originally there would have been a stud with a nut on each end.

The copper washers you get with an oil change kit are there to prevent leaking from between the nuts and the cover, acorn nuts were used to prevent leaking between the studs and the nuts.

[Glenn]

There should of been a nut... look for it.

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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

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[TwangBus]

Thanks Glenn.

And what of the torque or thread adhesive?

[Glenn]

7ft-lbs

If you're using stronger bolts instead of studs you can go 10ft-lbs.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[SGKent]

yes, the extended sum uses a nut on top of that stud. As I recall, it is a locking stainless nut. If the stud was removed then the nut came off. If the stud was not removed then it is still there. You may need one of these to find it. Use a bent wire to fish it out if it is not magnetic.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PBF6DX5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Glenn]

[TwangBus]

Great info
Thanks guys!
Note! On closer inspection the nut appears to be "fixed" and didn't move.
So praise tha Lord I'm gonna Red Permatex them threads and bolt her up to 7 ft lbs. Using a reusable silicone gasket and pray I never have to do this again.

[Glenn]

Since you'll not have to take the sump off again, I use the paper gasket and apply some Permatex Right Stuff to both sides.

I rub some on the gasket between 2 fingers so there's a good coating, I install the sump and only make the nuts finger tight. I allow 12 hours for the Right Stuff to setup and then I torque it.

I've done a number of then this way and never had one leak.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[74 Thing]

I use the silicone gasket there like you are planning and mine do not leak.

The Right Stuff is a very good sealant too if you want to go that route like Glenn uses.

[W1K1]

if you can lap the sealing face flat on the sump, that helps a lot.
I had a couple of the CB sumps with pretty good grooves to smooth out when I lapped them. Some loctite 515 on both sides of the gasket will seal it for good.
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[SGKent]

Glenn, my extended sump kit came with a stainless nylon locking nut and longer studs as I recall. The stock stud was too short. The longer stud won't take an acorn nut when going back and forth, which I had to between summer and winter.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Glenn]

You don't need acorn nuts inside.

I put bolts in from the inside of the case is apart and if not, i use blue loctite on the studs.

I then remove the nuts one at a time and blue loctite them on and torque to spec.

The pan is to not remove the sump until you need to split the case.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[SGKent]

Ok let's try again. The stock studs are too short for an extended sump. The manufacturer puts longer studs and a locking nut to replace the factory nut in their kit.

If the extended sump is on in the winter, even with a thermostat the oil will never warm up. I had to take the extended sump off in winter. That meant changing studs every winter and summer. In winter the factory studs were short and the acorn nuts fit them.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Glenn]

Who does that?

Never in 40 years did I remove a sump for the winter
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[richparker]

[TwangBus]

The consensus here as I see it is despite the varied desigs and versions of these deep sumps is...
Various bolts, nuts and thread adhesives to the case require 7-10 ft lbs of torque and 5 ft lbs to the lower sump plates. Always use an accurate torque wrench!
Various gasket and sealer combinations work for most with little or no leaks.
No where have I seen anyone cite a failure with silicone gaskets. And such failures may be a result in improper instalation.
Again thanks to each of you for your comments solutions and observations.
Your help has been invaluable.
Charlie

[Glenn]

[TwangBus]

Perhaps I am or should be (wearing suspenders & a belt)....
Recently visiting one of my sons... my wife was engaged in conversation with my daughter in law and I walked up to them to answer a question. In the course of the exchange, my flannel britches dropped straight to my ankles.
A hilarious family story which causes me great embarrassment.
The moral of the story is....
Don't let this happen to "your" V-WEE.
And don't forget to wear your rubbers (silicone) (old school = golushes).
All my best
Charlie

[SGKent]

my oil pressure was ballistic in winter if I used the extended sump.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin