1835 runs hot at highway speeds

[Pruneman99]

With the numbers you're posting oil pressure vs. RPM, I would feel comfortable stepping down to a 5w or 0w and try the experiment again. Just keep.the oil pressure 10x the RPM, or slightly above.

If after stepping the oil weight down and the pressure is still good but still getting hot, try either a different spring in the bypass or check to see the oil cooler seals aren't over torqued and smashed, restricting flow to the cooler. The bolts only get torqued to 5lbs. I've taken apart quite a few that were over torqued. The seals were all bit blocking the oil passages.

[Cusser]

[vwkirb]

If you have both oil pressure and oil temp gauges, you can see the temps go up when the oil cooler relief valve is opened(the one near the pully). So if your cruising above that point, the temps are going to go up until the oil heats up enough to thin, the valve will then close (because of the decrease in pressure) and the oil will be routed through the cooler.

Making an adjustment (adding to spring pressure) to that valve to increase flow to the cooler at higher pressures and may help.

It's a super simple system that is very inexact. If you want well controlled oil temps at any speed or rpm add a thermostat and an external cooler with a fan. Otherwise, see what you can do to lower it given the system you have.

Take a look at these images:

Here are some image of the adjustment kit from aircooled.net (which allows you to increase the pressure on the pully side plunger) and the stock vs cb kit for the relief valve.

Stock vs CB - look at the difference in the height of the plunger, the additional height of that type of plunger will add to the spring pressure. Those chrome springs are not generally recommended, so don't reach for a "booster kit" you will add to your problems. I might consider using the stepped plunger with a stock spring. The cb plunger also has a poor finish on the top of the plunger, if I used it I would sand out those lathe marks and make sure the seating area is flat.

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Andrew Kirby

[Volktales]

Thanks vwkirb for that picture. I have been reading the "stickys" about how the dual relief system works. I don't want to do any "add-ons"to what is basically a lightly modified engine. I will replace the 30 mm pump and install original springs in the relief valves. Will probably try 5w30 this time as well. Pretty sure my relief valves use those "shiny" springs, so time for a change... I will report back once this is done...
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1974 "Restfalia" Camper 2000 cc EFI 2001-
1970 Beetle first car, rotten, yard art 1985-
1966 Sunroof Beetle, restored 1998-
1964 Ghia, ongoing project 2007-
1962 Beetle Beryl,original paint survivor 2012-
1970 Savannah Beige Beetle 2012-
1992 16v GTI, 100% stock 2006-
1991 "Terseo", wife's old daily 1995-
1969 Chevrolet CST/10 (family owned since new)
1965 Gold Corvair Monza 2021-
1966 and 1965 Monza 2022-

[vwkirb]

Changing the pump may be what fixes it in the end, but I'd run lighter oil first.

5w-30 is good start, don't be afraid to go lower, i'm running 5w-20. If you have a pressure and a temp gauge you can really start to see whats going on.

Just yesterday I cranked in my adjustable relief valve and dropped my temps around 15 degrees on the highway.
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Andrew Kirby

[[email protected]]

I don't like the 30mm pumps, ESPECIALLY the cast iron ones.

But in your situation I'd change oil before changing pumps. Most 30mm pumps that I've seen needed 0-20 to get pressures under control.
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[Volktales]

OK, for testing purposes I will switch to 0w20 before doing anything else, and see what happens then let you guys know...
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1974 "Restfalia" Camper 2000 cc EFI 2001-
1970 Beetle first car, rotten, yard art 1985-
1966 Sunroof Beetle, restored 1998-
1964 Ghia, ongoing project 2007-
1962 Beetle Beryl,original paint survivor 2012-
1970 Savannah Beige Beetle 2012-
1992 16v GTI, 100% stock 2006-
1991 "Terseo", wife's old daily 1995-
1969 Chevrolet CST/10 (family owned since new)
1965 Gold Corvair Monza 2021-
1966 and 1965 Monza 2022-

[Alstrup]

Yeah, well, imho 0 or 5 viscosity is just no go in the long run on an acvw. There is simply not enough oil film to keep things apart. Racing is different. On the street I go no lower than 10w/30. If that gives me too much oil pressure I replace what is needed to get it right
Testing is ok for short periods.

[mikedjames]

60 mph @ 2600 rpm : maybe its simply your fan is spinning too slowly for the engine power output.

For a stock Ghia top speed 86mph @ 4600 rpm would give 60mph @ 3200 rpm .
In other words stock is 53 rpm per mph.

Your Ghia is more like 45 rpm/mph.

So not only a surprise 1835 but also a Freeway Flyer gearbox...

So the hotter running may just be the inevitable side effect of delivery of the same power as stock but at lower RPM and therefore less cooling with a Freeway Flyer.
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Ancient vehicles and vessels

1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.

1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy

[Volktales]

With regards to the transmission, it is not a rebuilt "freeway flyer". It is in fact a somewhat rare-ish trans in this part of the world. Originally sourced from a Canadian Custom model Beetle, it is a swing-axle transmission that was matched to a dual port 1600 when new in 1972. I do not know which ratios this trans uses, but I assume the rpm would allow for adequate cooling.

With regards to the oil weight, I think to satisfy my own curiosity I will try 5w20 first, and record pressures and temperatures. Then I will try the 0w20 as a last resort. If that doesn't help, then the pump will be swapped. Won't get time to do this until next week...
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1974 "Restfalia" Camper 2000 cc EFI 2001-
1970 Beetle first car, rotten, yard art 1985-
1966 Sunroof Beetle, restored 1998-
1964 Ghia, ongoing project 2007-
1962 Beetle Beryl,original paint survivor 2012-
1970 Savannah Beige Beetle 2012-
1992 16v GTI, 100% stock 2006-
1991 "Terseo", wife's old daily 1995-
1969 Chevrolet CST/10 (family owned since new)
1965 Gold Corvair Monza 2021-
1966 and 1965 Monza 2022-

[Cusser]

Humor me, take a flashlight and look upwards under the engine; look between the two inner pushrod tubes on each side, see if the cylinder air deflector tins are there on both sides, between the cylinders and the pushrod tubes https://www.jbugs.com/product/311119317A.html

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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[Volktales]

Cusser, those tins are in place. I took great pains when assembling the cooling tins to make sure everything was there, where it should be. All the cooling tins are original German, all thermostat related parts are unworn, and moving freely. The Hoover bit is in place as well. It will be interesting to see what temps and pressure differences will be seen when the oil is changed...
_________________
1974 "Restfalia" Camper 2000 cc EFI 2001-
1970 Beetle first car, rotten, yard art 1985-
1966 Sunroof Beetle, restored 1998-
1964 Ghia, ongoing project 2007-
1962 Beetle Beryl,original paint survivor 2012-
1970 Savannah Beige Beetle 2012-
1992 16v GTI, 100% stock 2006-
1991 "Terseo", wife's old daily 1995-
1969 Chevrolet CST/10 (family owned since new)
1965 Gold Corvair Monza 2021-
1966 and 1965 Monza 2022-

[vwkirb]

[Volktales]

Sooo, I have changed the oil for 5W20 and did not do anything else to the engine other then raising the idle speed slightly to 850-900 rpm. Drove the car extensively on the highway and found the pressure peaks at about 42-43 psi instead of the previous 44 psi. The idle speed was still around 10-12 psi when hot. I could not get the temperature to rise beyond 215 F this time. Unfortunately the weather has cooled off here lately, 15 C, 60 F, so I will have to wait until things heat up to see if it actually is running somewhat cooler, or not.

My friend was over in his freshly rebuilt '72 Ghia with a 1776 with duel Webers. Otherwise his engine is very similar to my Kadron equipped 1835. He does have a deep sump on his however. We drove the same route at the same speed and checked temperatures. Tonight mine did not exceed 200 F, and his was only 170 F. He does not have a 30MM pump either. One thing that was interesting, was his exhaust temperature was significantly lower than mine. We both have exactly the same Vintage Speed exhaust. Hmmm, what could that mean???
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1974 "Restfalia" Camper 2000 cc EFI 2001-
1970 Beetle first car, rotten, yard art 1985-
1966 Sunroof Beetle, restored 1998-
1964 Ghia, ongoing project 2007-
1962 Beetle Beryl,original paint survivor 2012-
1970 Savannah Beige Beetle 2012-
1992 16v GTI, 100% stock 2006-
1991 "Terseo", wife's old daily 1995-
1969 Chevrolet CST/10 (family owned since new)
1965 Gold Corvair Monza 2021-
1966 and 1965 Monza 2022-

[dawie]

Remember that EGT is dependent mainly on AFR ratio, ignition timing and expansion ratio. This probably makes a bigger difference than your friend's slightly smaller bore diameter.

[Max Welton]

[Gr0unded]

Bump, signing up to this thread to see future results.
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B r i a n
1976 VW Type 1 Beetle - Standard

Stop Dead Photo Links! Post your VW photos to the Samba Gallery!

[MuzzcoVW]

[Root_Werks]

[Igpoe]

My 1835 is set up almost exactly like Cusser's and I'm running 10w-30 synthetic in my 1303. My infra-red says I'm at 165° after about a ten mile cruise. But the ambient temperature was only 71°f. Last summer when the ambient was 95° my IR showed 185° and I was tempted to get my tennis ball out from under the seat, but I didn't. I switched exhaust to a VS Superflow last week but my temps are the same. I had been using a single glaspack.

Last year when I needed tha alternator off my spare 1600 I noticed it had a 36hp fan in the shroud! But it never ran hot when it was running in my bug!
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'73 super.