Author |
Message |
mammbush Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2004 Posts: 94
|
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:44 am Post subject: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
I have a 6/1973 beetle. I’m running 31s out back. I want to replacechange gearing to help with the final drive. Suggestions? 4:57? Who do I contact? _________________ If it’s got tits or tires, it’ll give you trouble. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4848 Location: sanger ca
|
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
4.57 would be a bus box. You could do a 4.86 if it is available. I think I would just change 3-4 out using a gear calculator to determine ratios. _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
19-VW-74 Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2009 Posts: 757 Location: Utah
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
|
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
A lot depends on how much power the engine has and the intended use of the vehicle. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
|
Back to top |
|
|
b-man Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2008 Posts: 498 Location: So Cal
|
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
Better yet one from the folks who provide and manufacture VW transaxle components:
https://weddleindustries.com/gear-calculator _________________ 1956 Dove Blue Panel
1966 Velvet Green Single Cab
1957 L41 Black Oval Window Beetle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
|
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
If you were to stay with your present 3.87 ring and pinion then a 1.02 4th gear would put you at 70 mph at 3000 rpm. Do you have enough engine to handle that?
A 4.12 ring and pinion with a 1.02 4th would run 66 mph at 3000 rpm.
I must ask... why the monster tires? Off road car? _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mammbush Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2004 Posts: 94
|
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
1835, pertronix vacuum advance, flame thrower coil, C45 cam, 32/36 carb 40/35.5 valves. Not sure the power. Just Boggs in 4th if there’s any resistance. Bridges, heavy head wind etc. It’s a city car. _________________ If it’s got tits or tires, it’ll give you trouble. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
|
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
Just changing tires to something in the 25" to 26" range would fix it and be far cheaper than a transaxle gearing change.
Just an idea... _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mammbush Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2004 Posts: 94
|
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
No I don’t want smaller tires. Looks too good with the big tires. I’ll spend the money to do it the way I want. All good. _________________ If it’s got tits or tires, it’ll give you trouble. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
|
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
Solution #1 - Aftermarket 4.86 R&P with stock gears.
Solution #2 - Your stock 3.88 R&P with 1.48 - 3rd & 1.13 - 4th gears.
Solution #3 - My choice would be 4.12 R&P with 1.48 - 3rd & 1.04 - 4th gear.
The 4.12 R&P would be a little easier driving in heavy city traffic.
You didn't ask but you would get a noticeable increase in power if you installed dual 40 IDF's on your engine. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cbeck Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014 Posts: 2494 Location: high ridge, mo
|
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
Runnong 31's on my rail. 4.375, stock ssc 1st and 2nd. 1.46 3rd and 0.93 4th. If I had it to do over, I would have went with a steeper 4th gear. Gps says about 3200 rpm at 65 mph. _________________ My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2234 Location: Medford, OR
|
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
mammbush wrote: |
No I don’t want smaller tires. Looks too good with the big tires. I’ll spend the money to do it the way I want. All good. |
I get this. When I ran 31s with 4.12, I treated it like I was driving a 3spd with over drive.
But, would like it regeared.
Bwajaja has a 1680cc. With a w110 and dual Kads. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
|
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
The higher the ring and pinion ratio get, the smaller the gear teeth are, the less able to tolerate any abuse they'll be. I would keep you strong 3.88 and change your 3rd and 4th gears to one of the combos listed. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NJ John Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2007 Posts: 2173 Location: HdG, MD & NJ
|
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:14 am Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
Aren’t there some Thing irs transaxles out there with 4.37? Just for a cheap solution. _________________ 1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell 15.4@86, so far
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
Let’s go O’s! Let’s go O’s!
https://www.youtube.com/@AirSpooledGarage |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
|
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:50 am Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
NJ John wrote: |
Aren’t there some Thing irs transaxles out there with 4.37? Just for a cheap solution. |
No.
Things with IRS were 4.12. Earlier Type 181 sold outside the USA were swingaxle.
slalombuggy wrote: |
The higher the ring and pinion ratio get, the smaller the gear teeth are, the less able to tolerate any abuse they'll be. I would keep you strong 3.88 and change your 3rd and 4th gears to one of the combos listed. |
Yes it's true 3.88 are stronger than a 4.12, but that does not mean the 4.12 are weak. I've run hundreds of full 1/4 mile passes in my heavy street Ghia with a 4.12. He'll be fine with a 4.12 in his 90 HP street car. The spider gears are the weak link. With the 3.88 & 31" tires, he'll be lugging the engine in 1st & 2nd gear in heavy street driving with his 90 HP 1835 engine. The 4.12 will be a lot more enjoyable driving around town 20-30 MPH. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
|
Back to top |
|
|
oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
|
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:01 am Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
vwracerdave wrote: |
Earlier Type 181 sold outside the USA were swingaxle |
With reduction boxes if I remember correctly. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dusty1 Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004 Posts: 1365
|
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:34 am Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
oprn wrote: |
Just changing tires to something in the 25" to 26" range would fix it and be far cheaper than a transaxle gearing change.
Just an idea... |
mammbush wrote: |
No I don’t want smaller tires. Looks too good with the big tires. I’ll spend the money to do it the way I want. All good. |
Once again styling triumphs over engineering.
Engineer shows up at a Design Focus Group with a clearly superior mouse trap. It's a curious looking device the Marketing Team instantly dislikes. Another good idea never sees the light of day.
We'll re- visit the "How many 175 hp burnouts can a stock '67 swingaxle endure?" story.
In this case our transaxle took exactly one burnout to become useless albeit expensive junk. The detail I tend to omit is we tried to keep the tire sizes reasonable with 29/9.50-15s on the back. Truth of the matter is VWs were designed to work properly with narrow tires 26" tall or less. Too much rubber meeting the road causes more wear and tear on the drivetrain, the transaxle in particular. Not to mention the situation where only one gear out of four is drivable some of the time.
We were ready to do the "money is no object." thing until we were quoted $5000 (plus core charge, plus shipping both ways) for a transaxle we can't break.
.
. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
|
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:01 am Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
I find that in most cases my right foot is directly connected to my wallet. The harder I use the right foot the emptier my wallet becomes!
To fix that I like to insert my brain in the loop between the right foot and the wallet. Seems to have helped in later years... didn't work when I was younger though! My brain was the weak link back then. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mammbush Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2004 Posts: 94
|
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:48 am Post subject: Re: IRS trans gearing |
|
|
Thanks for the good advice and recommendations. The opinions are, well, like assholes, everyone has one and some of them stink. _________________ If it’s got tits or tires, it’ll give you trouble. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|