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Vanapplebomb
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Location: Holland, MI
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Lars S
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Posts: 754
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:51 am Post subject: Re: DJet Oil bath preheat |
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From memory only(?) the 1972 year model had preheated air as an attempt to tackle the new emission restrictions...a bit unsure here, someone can please correct me.
Lars S
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Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver 
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold 
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 20587
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: DJet Oil bath preheat |
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| Lars S wrote: |
From memory only(?) the 1972 year model had preheated air as an attempt to tackle the new emission restrictions...a bit unsure here, someone can please correct me.
Lars S |
I believe you are correct. The non California emissions package....meaning everything but the air pump, lowered compression and retarded ignition timing......was fairly simple and consisted of ways to get through the warm up stage faster as well as the PCV valve system as well as the deceleration shut off.
I think it was only 1972. In the US that probably meant from August 1971 to August 1972 (which became the 1973 model).
Several things changed on the 1973. It was the 412 now and was still D-jet. In late D-jet here in the US, r8ght before the 1.8L and L-jet came out......the 412 with 1.7L switched to a round paper filter unit with no preheat.
Also the sheet metal changed from 1971/72 411 and the warm air chimney located in the firewall sheet metal right next to cylinder #1 went away.
One thing I will try to check....is that may 1973 412 two door coupe ....with 1.7L/D-Jet... .came with an oil bath air cleaner that I swapped to the later round paper filter unit.....but I still have the oil bath cleaner. I will check to see if it deleted the pre-heat or still has it.
Ray |
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Vanapplebomb
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Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5159
Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: DJet Oil bath preheat |
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Sounds good. Thanks Lars and Ray. I was puzzled why there would have been preheat on a fuel injected engine. Seemed strange to me.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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Lars S
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Joined: October 04, 2007
Posts: 754
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: DJet Oil bath preheat |
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| Vanapplebomb wrote: |
| Sounds good. Thanks Lars and Ray. I was puzzled why there would have been preheat on a fuel injected engine. Seemed strange to me. |
Yes I also thought so at first...but looking at two of my other Bosch multi point injected cars (Golf 2003 1.4 16v and Passat 1995 2.0) they both have warm air arrangement very much the same as the 1972 411.
As a side note only, this is how the new air cleaner was explained when introduced for the -72 model:
Lars S
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Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold |
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Vanapplebomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5159
Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: DJet Oil bath preheat |
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The application for carbureted engines is obvious… but I am puzzled by some FI engines that have it. It isn’t just VW either I suppose. I have seen a vacuum actuated warm air intake on some late 80’s and early 90’s Chrysler fuel injection as well. Must have been emissions related, as you say.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 20587
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: DJet Oil bath preheat |
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| Vanapplebomb wrote: |
| The application for carbureted engines is obvious… but I am puzzled by some FI engines that have it. It isn’t just VW either I suppose. I have seen a vacuum actuated warm air intake on some late 80’s and early 90’s Chrysler fuel injection as well. Must have been emissions related, as you say. |
I would bet that its there to help out the TS-1 air intake sensor which enriches....you know...I'm not sure whether it gets richer as the air gets colder or warmer. Have to check on that.
But the early injection systems were barely under their own control at cold weather warmup situations. The AAR (air bypass) was crudely controlled. The cold start valve was decently controlled as per when it turned on but not per how much fuel it injected. The TS-2 (cylinder head sensor) drops in ~ 10-15% enrichment in cold weather......so as I found many years ago, unless you are in a perfect state of tune...sometimes you ran pretty rich for a while until fully warmed up. Ray |
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Vanapplebomb
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Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5159
Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:21 am Post subject: Re: DJet Oil bath preheat |
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So, by that logic, with modern fuel injection systems, the preheat is pretty much irrelevant?
I was also wondering if they found issues in the early non preheat oil baths with the oil being too thick in cold climates, so they added preheat to keep the oil warmer/thinner. The fact that some fuel injected Chryslers with paper air cleaners 30 or so years ago also had preheat kind of blows this out of the water though.
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